HHS 24 | AutoImmune Disease


Education, nutrition, and lifestyle. These are things that people should be considering for a healthier body but oftentimes disregard due to the promise of pharmaceutical drugs. Dr. Terry Wahls, MD, takes us through her journey that earned her the title of Autoimmune Warrior. She shares her experience of being diagnosed with multiple sclerosis which left her almost hopeless. Her health continued to decline in spite of getting the best drugs from the best people, but she chose to fight and not give up. Learn more about her journey and find out how basic science led her to defeat such a mysterious disease.

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Autoimmune Warrior Dr. Terry Wahls

I’m very excited because I’m going to be talking to Dr. Terry Wahls. If you don’t know Dr. Terry Wahls, I don’t know where you’ve been because she is all over the place. She is all over social media, the internet, and any kind of holistic health conference, she is right there front and center. It’s for good reason because she is a medical doctor who found out the truth that modern medicine was not going to do much for her condition if anything at all. She was going to go after the root cause. Because of that, she was able to help herself and cure herself. She’ll tell you that story. She wrote bestselling books because of her ability to do that and to get outside of the medical matrix. Welcome, Dr. Wahls to the Healthy Heart Show.

Thank you so much for having me.

I’ve been a big fan of yours for a long time because you’re another medical doctor who opted out of the mainstream medical system because things were not successful. Tell me a little bit about your medical training, where you came from? Tell me how much education you had on nutrition and lifestyle and the things that you talk about in your book. How much did you learn in your medical training that applied to your book?

I’m an internal medicine doctor. I did a year of ob-gyn and then three years of internal medicine. Through all of that, I received no lectures on nutrition. Nobody was talking about diet and lifestyle. Fat was the evil thing. We’re all supposed to do a low-fat diet. I was trained to be very skeptical of special diets, skeptical of supplements, skeptical of a couple of alternative medicine. That’s what I taught my residents to be. I taught them to be very skeptical. God works in mysterious ways. I was diagnosed with relapsing-remitting multiple sclerosis in 2000 because I had problems with my left leg. I’d had a history of visual dimming in my left eye thirteen years earlier. I knew I wanted to treat my disease aggressively. I sought out the best center I could find, which was the Cleveland Clinic. I took the newest drugs. I continued to decline despite that.

I tell the story about my father who was an excellent cardiologist and he came down with this strange neurologic disease similar to Parkinson’s called progressive supranuclear palsy. We take him to the Mayo Clinic eventually where he gets the official label. Those medical doctors are good at labels. This person has MS. This person has cancer. This person has a brain disease, has Parkinson’s and all these different categories we put people into. They labeled him with PSP. They say that there’s no treatment for him. They have no idea why he has it. This is at the Mayo Clinic. You go to the Cleveland Clinic. This is the answer that the majority of people are getting. They’re not getting answers. They’re not getting better.

We’re good figuring out that disease is because of altered biochemistry. Chemistry is not happening properly. We’re going to fix that chemistry with drugs. The sad thing is had we spent all this money researching how diet and lifestyle and environment affects how we run the chemistry of life, we’d be so much further along in understanding how to help our patients become well. Even though I took the best drugs from the best people, I had seven years of a steady decline. I was in a reclining wheelchair. I was unable to sit up. I was having a refractory pain that was more and more difficult to manage.

That’s when I went back to reading basic science myself. I would begin experimenting based on what I was reading. I was reading a lot of nutrition studies, a lot of supplements studies. I figured out a supplement cocktail that helped my fatigue a little bit. It slowed the speed of my decline so I was grateful. That summer of ’07, I discovered the Institute for Functional Medicine and took their course on neuroprotection. I had a long list of supplements. I had a big a-ha moment. What if I redesign my diet using what I learned from the supplements? I reshaped how I ate in a very specific way. When I did that, it was remarkable how quickly things began to change.

HHS 24 | AutoImmune Disease

AutoImmune Disease: People can begin to understand the mechanisms of how diet and lifestyle are shifting the levels of inflammation, the levels of oxidative stress, and how we’re running our biochemistry.


This is the Healthy Heart Show, why would Dr. Jack Wolfson have Dr. Terry Wahls on it? The answer is quite obvious because as we’ve talked about already, the causes of all these different diseases, the causes of all these different labels that the medical doctors give, they’re all fundamental. It is nutrition. It’s a lifestyle. We learned about none of this in medical school. We never talk about nutrition. We never talk about sleep. We never talk about sunshine. We never talk about physical activity. We talk about pharmaceuticals, surgeries, CT scans, and MRIs. Isn’t that all we learned?

We learned a lot about the journal of medicine and standards of care, levels of evidence, is it Class A, Class B, Class C. We learn all of that. We learned a lot about the disease. We learned very little about health. We learned very little about what were the requirements for the optimal functioning of my biochemistry, optimal functioning of my cellular physiology. The beauty of getting so desperately ill was that I found they had to come to terms with the fact that with a progressive illness, drugs were not going to resolve it. That got me to begin to think about what else could I do? That got me to reading the science and ultimately beginning to experiment in a very intentional way trying to optimize the physiology for my cells based on everything that I could read about using science to design a very specific diet to reduce the inflammation, reduce the oxidative stress, and improve cellular physiology. It was quite remarkable. In October of ’07, I can’t sit up. I struggled to walk ten feet. I have trigeminal neuralgia that is mostly on. It’s very difficult.

I began to have brain fog. I’m exhausted by 10:00 in the morning. In January, I have to go start seeing patients in a traumatic brain injury clinic where my chief of staff had sent me to. I knew he had done that primarily to force me to face medical retirement because the VA in the university retired and reassigned my job. I’ve stayed with them for about seven years. I was quite grateful they had done that. That’s when I discovered the Institute for Functional Medicine. I was reshaping my diet. In December, I had reorganized my eating plan. In January, I go off to the clinic, the traumatic brain injury clinic. I’m going to do this and I’m going to finally apply for a disability. To my amazement, at the end of that first week in clinic, I was like, “This wasn’t too bad.” By the end of February, I did something remarkable. I used my cane to walk down to mail a letter. I’m walking in the hospital for the first time in four years. My pain has melted away. My mental clarity has improved. My fatigue has gone.

Nine months later, I get on my bike and I bike around the block the first time in six years. I’m crying. My kids are crying. My wife is crying. That’s when I’m like, “Okay.” Clearly, the conventional understanding of secondary progressive MS is wrong. I’ve been told that the functions lost would be gone forever. They were all coming back. It’s like, “We don’t know how much recovery might be possible.” In the meantime, I’m beginning to change how I’m practicing primary care in my traumatic brain injury clinic. I’m talking to my patients that you’ve got a traumatic brain injury and yes, there’s a lot we can do for you. We can teach you about nutrition. We’re going to teach how to do stress-reducing activities. You’re going to get a step counter. You’re going to start walking every day. You could tell who I saw because the people I saw started getting better. They were likely to still be employed when they came back six months later. They were likely to still be romantically involved with the same person six months later. In my primary care clinics, I started talking less and less about drugs and more and more about food.

The beauty of getting so desperately ill is having to resign to the fact that your illness is something that drugs is not going to resolve. Click To Tweet

What did your colleagues think about this? You’re on the soapbox now. You’re talking about causation. You’re talking about nutrition. I know what my colleagues thought about me. What did yours think about you?

There were two things that happened in parallel. The first thing my chief of staff called me and said, “Terry, what’s going on?” People are upset. I had several complaints filed so I had to go down and explain to him what I was doing. I took my papers down. He said, “Okay.” He ultimately became a big fan. I took a box with 85 different papers explaining what I was doing and why. My chair of medicine over at the university talked with me. He was so impressed with what I was doing and he gave me the job of getting a case report written up. He also did something that was important. He had me speak with Nicole Nisly who made it very clear that I had to be very careful how I documented this in the clinical record and how I spoke about it in public that was not overstating my case. I was very careful that I was not treating any disease state with my radical things known as vegetables and B vitamins and fish oil.

Rather I was improving cellular function and that I couldn’t necessarily predict what the response would be. It was quite possible if physiology improves that blood pressure, improve blood sugars would improve and that we may be having to adjust their medications downward. Once I’ve learned how to talk in the appropriately FDA approved language about improved physiology. As a potential side effect was we’d have to watch your blood pressure and your blood sugars closely and adjust medications so you wouldn’t have adverse effects from an excessive dose of meds. My colleagues were comfortable with what I was doing and things were fine. I had to learn how to speak very carefully so that my colleagues were not alarmed that I was treating their disease states. I was simply trying to improve wellness. That was a little bit of a learning curve for me. I certainly did get a lot of pushback at first.

You and I are definitely brother and sister from another mother, that’s for sure because obviously, I went through so many of the same trials and tribulations. I was with the biggest group in the state of Arizona private practice at the top of the cardiology game, and certainly financially. I was one of the Phoenix Arizona’s top doctors in 2011 in their magazine there. I wasn’t very diplomatic because I would stand up on my soapbox. I’ll be talking about all of this stuff at the nurse’s station. It would be calling up the medical practice and our managing partner and yelling and screaming at him. All the referring doctors were all pissed off that I was talking about nutrition and taking people off of statins and other pharmaceuticals. Your book is so well referenced. You talk about the 85 studies that you brought in. Now it’s probably like 8,500 studies. In my book, there are over 300 references. It’s all there in the medical literature. Why are the medical doctors not reading it?

It’s very hard to stay current. You learned all that stuff during medical school and residency and then you’re in practice and you’re trying to get through the day and get home to your kids. Unfortunately, medicine advances one funeral or one retirement at a time. What I do find exciting though is that as our understanding of the microbiome has exploded, as the understanding of epigenetics has exploded, people can begin to understand the mechanisms of how diet and lifestyle are shifting the levels of inflammation. The levels of oxidative stress, and how we’re running our biochemistry.

When I wrote my book, most of the neurologists around the country thought diet had nothing to do with MS or disease activity and people should eat what they wanted. That has begun to shift. There are now multiple studies going on a diet in the study of MS, ketogenic studies, low glycemic index studies, Mediterranean diet studies, Paleo diet, and low saturated fat diet. People are beginning to finally admit like, “Yes, diet quality matters.” The MS Society has created an educational handout both for practicing physicians and for patients saying that diet quality matters. More research is needed. Here are some popular diets and here’s the science behind them and the potential benefits and the potential downsides of these diets. We’re definitely making headway.

HHS 24 | AutoImmune Disease

AutoImmune Disease: Inflammation is a sign of inadequate vegetable intake, inadequate greens, inadequate physical activity, inadequate social contact, inadequate purpose, inadequate bonding and inadequate sleep.


The whole concept of the diet is amazing because you got your dog there in front of you and dogs are so healing, beneficial in so many different levels. From infrared energy, the energy is given off by your dog to you is tremendous. How come we don’t have to teach a dog what to eat? If we put a dog into the wild, they would eat other animals. They would eat berries. They would eat the grass. They will be hunter-gatherers. Why have we as humans missed the boat on that? Why do we say that the hunter-gatherer diet is not the best diet?

It’s all political and economical. We’ve created a food industry that has been allowed to design food for maximum profit. They create products add additives to drive overconsumption. Over consuming their product, increase their profits, and there’s no penalty for them if there are long-term health adverse consequences to us. This is, unfortunately, the natural consequence of our economic system. It’s unfortunate, but I think it’s a reality. I know a lot of people have criticized that there are no one hunter-gatherer diets. Therefore, the Paleo diet has to be wrong. It’s like, “No, our mitochondria and our physiology are very adaptable.” That’s why humans across the globe have adapted to many different climates. We can survive on a high-fat diet or a high protein diet or a high carb diet. There are many ways to thrive. The things that we do know that clearly wreck our health are a lot of processed foods, a lot of sugar, a lot of food additives, a lot of emulsifiers, a lot of white flour. Clearly, that’s terrible for us. You can have a debate as to whether a ketogenic diet is better or a lower protein, higher fat diet or a low glycemic diet, high vegetable, Mediterranean diet. There’s a lot of debate there.

As far as laboratory testing because the medical doctors know that inflammation is bad. They know that oxidative stress is bad. They don’t understand what creates inflammation and oxidative stress. To them, obviously in the cardiology world, if there’s inflammation, oxidative stress, it’s a sign that the person needs that statin drugs. They need an aspirin. They need their ACE inhibitor, their blood pressure drugs, that’s what their answer is. We like to go after causation. I’m certainly not the first person that said leaky gut, leaky brain. I’m sure you would agree. The penetration of the blood-brain barrier and all the immune activation, autoimmune activation against brain tissue leads to symptoms of MS and Parkinson’s, and my father with PSP.

Inflammation to me is a sign of inadequate vegetable intake, inadequate greens, inadequate color, inadequate sulfur, inadequate physical activity, inadequate social contact, inadequate purpose, inadequate bonding, and inadequate sleep. Fix all of those things and that probably will lead to a lot fewer prescription medications.

You didn’t mention a deficiency of seafood. Tell me the importance of seafood for brain health.

What you want to do is get Omega-3 fats. If you’re along the coast, our ancestors would’ve had plenty of fish. If you were inland, I’m here in Iowa so we’re quite inland, you had been getting that from wild venison, buffalo. You probably would’ve had some wild fish as well. Certainly, you want to have plenty of Omega-3 fats and you can get that from wild fish. You could get that from the yokes of grass-pastured chickens. You could get that from grass-fed meat.

I thought you were going to say that over in Iowa you were going to get the Omega-3 from corn. My home state of Illinois, people think that health comes from soybeans.

Unfortunately, in Iowa and Illinois, most of our soybeans and corn are genetically modified. That’s another separate issue and that’s an experiment that I’d rather not be part of. Most of those genetically modified organisms have been modified to tolerate a high dose of glyphosate, which is a weed killer to allow for a more efficient harvest of those crops and growing those crops. It also has a huge disruption to my microbiome and the microbiome of the animals that are fed those genetically modified soybeans and corn.

I’m sure we have a mutual friend in Stephanie Seneff. I’ve interviewed her for the podcast as well. It’s such an eye-opening material for people. Even those genetically modified potatoes right now, it’s insane.

For a lot of folks who are getting those supplements, they didn’t realize that many of the supplements are manufactured using genetically modified bacteria. It would be very thoughtful as you think about food and you think about the supplements that these GMOs are so pervasive.

You’re a big proponent of it. As far as diet is concerned, you can go to TerryWahls.com/Diet. She’s got a simple one page there for you, which is going to contain all the foods you need. We can do this with diet. Supplements obviously help to supplement a healthy lifestyle. You got to know your companies. That’s for sure. You can’t supplement your way to health. You can eat fast food, cookies, cupcakes, and drink alcohol every night and expect that your supplements are going to save you because they’re not.

They will absolutely not save you.

We learned a lot about disease. We learned very little about health. Click To Tweet

MS and pretty much all diseases, the farther you are away from the equator, the lower your levels of Vitamin D, the higher the risk of everything including multiple sclerosis. The answer is not Vitamin D supplementation. To me, the answer is the sun. Would you agree?

Absolutely. Unfortunately, our dermatology colleagues have convinced people to slather their skin with sunblock so that they don’t get a sunburn to reduce the risk of skin cancer. When you do that, then you cannot make Vitamin D. You’ll be Vitamin D deficient. That has a huge impact on gene expression in your inflammation levels as well.

You mentioned dermatologists. It’s like I automatically cringe. I feel so sick whenever I heard that term dermatologist. How they vilified the sun and how these idiots on television tell people to stay away from the sun. I’m sure you experienced this as well, Terry. I know you’re a mother and you have children. When you go to the beach and you see these parents that are slathering on the chemical toxins on their children, I want to grab them and run away. Do you feel the same way? You want to grab those children and run.

You look at the epidemic of learning disorders, behavior problems, and social anxiety in children. It’s tied to the inadequate vegetable intake, inadequate sunlight, inadequate physical activity, and inadequate face-to-face human contact. Sunblock is a big part of it. Inadequate Vitamin D is a big part of it. I see these increasing levels of anger and rage in our society and increasing levels of violence in our society. These are lifestyle problems at the root cause. These are a diet, sunshine, physical activity, and social bonding.

I’ve got that same rage at times when I see what’s going on in society. I eat a great diet. I get tons of sunshine and sleep. I still have that rage. My rage sometimes is trumped by my wife. Dr. Heather, who is a Doctor of Chiropractic, got me to become all natural and pulled me out of the medical matrix. I always say she’s close to becoming the Incredible Hulk. She’s so angry about what’s happening to our children. She’s so passionate about the children and about the animals. Tell me about the importance of sleep as it relates to MS and as it relates to overall health and wellness.

As we sleep at night, so that’s when my brain consolidates memory. It’s also very important when my brain will remove toxins and amyloid. Getting deep sleep is very important. The fact that we’re sleeping fewer for about one hour, I think 75 minutes less than we did 75 years ago. That’s huge. We have difficulty with blue lights because of the computer, the phone, television. That give signals to my retina that confuse time sensing aspects of my brain. My hormones are now out of sync. Sleep, they’re very important. It’s much easier to sleep if I minimize the screen time at night, get outside, and get sunlight during the day.

Let’s talk about mold. What about mold exposure, chronic mold, and mold in houses as it relates to autoimmune disease?

This is a somewhat genetic vulnerability. Do you have enzymes that can efficiently clear mold toxins from your bloodstream or are you less efficient at doing that? The more hits that you have in terms of your ability to detoxify, the more vulnerable you will be to the accumulation of mold toxins. As people address the overall matrix, improve their sleep, improve the quality of their diet, improve this social bonding, they can handle mold better. You may have gotten yourself such a large dose of mold spores, mold toxins that you’ve become very ill with autoimmune symptoms with severe fatigue, severe headache, and what looks like Lyme’s disease or MS. You may require a very intensive intervention program so you can recover from that. Once you’ve recovered then you can more easily maintain good health. The reason we become ill with mold has to do with the lifestyle tipping us over that the poor diet, the poor sleep, the inadequate Vitamin D, that adds to greater compromise in our ability to clear those mold toxins.

What are your thoughts on statin drugs and brain health and specifically autoimmune brain disease, dementia, Parkinson’s, and PSP? My father was on statin drugs. Statin drugs diminish dolichol, which is a steroid-like hormone concentrated in the substantia nigra. Statins and alcohol reduce that. My father drank too much. He took statin drugs as any good cardiologist does. What do you think about statins?

I remember early on when we were reviewing the papers about statins and their dramatic impact at lowering heart attacks. Every time we reviewed the papers when I was a resident, we kept saying, “What about this higher rate of homicide and suicide?” We’d say, “That can’t be real.” It turns out that there is a real cognitive impact. There is a deleterious impact on the brain. These higher rates of suicide and homicide are significant and higher rates of diabetes are significant. You may have an impact on lower rates of acute cardiac events. Is there a favorable impact on all-cause mortality? Furthermore, the problem has to do with inadequate vegetable intake. The problem has to do with high levels of inflammation because of poor diet and lifestyle. We don’t need to be giving people statins. We should be addressing that by addressing the root cause, which is poor diet quality, inadequate physical activity, and inadequate social bonding.

HHS 24 | AutoImmune Disease

AutoImmune Disease: We should drink according to our thirst and eat according to our appetite.


This is so easy having the conversation with you because we totally agree with each other, although I do have a question. You mentioned before that low saturated fat diet. Is saturated fat a problem in your mind?

No, I’m mindful that some folks are very concerned about saturated fat. They want to follow a low-fat diet. My response there is to use a lot of olive oil. Your brain is dependent on fat to make myelin. Your myelin and the cell membranes are dependent on cholesterol, saturated fat, Omega 6 fat in nuts and seeds, Omega-3 fat in grass-fed meat, wild fish. You need all those fats. If you go on a very low-fat diet, you’re putting a lot of strain on your myelin. You’re also putting a lot of strain on your ability to make Vitamin D, which we all need. You’re putting a lot of strain in your ability to make sex steroids. You need testosterone. I need a tiny amount of testosterone. I need a lot of estrogen. I don’t think you need any estrogen. We can’t make those things without cholesterol and saturated fat. I am not a fan of a low saturated fat diet.

These super low-fat people, the Caldwell Esselstyn, the firefighter, the John McDougalls, the Joel Fuhrman’s, they’re experimenting on people. It’s not our physiologic diet to be that low fat. Breast milk from a mother to a baby or to an animal to its baby is loaded with saturated fat, loaded with cholesterol. These people continue to vilify it. What happens is theoretically you can lower your risk of cardiovascular disease but it’s starvation. The body will start digesting itself and pulling all the good nutrients from the brain. The homicides, the suicides, and the original statin literature from the PROSPER trial, from AFCAPs, TexCAPS, there’s no evidence of benefit for overall mortality. In fact, there was a slightly higher incident of dying in the drug group from those that were taking the statin drugs.

I’d also add that if you look at all-cause mortality in the quintiles, people with the highest quintile for their blood cholesterol have the lowest all-cause mortality, the lowest risk of infection, the lowest risk of cancer, the lowest risk of dementia.

The lowest risk of brain disease. Those people that recommend that it’s an absolute starvation diet.

My response, because I want to maintain relationships with my cardiology colleagues here, is if the person has their cholesterol screwed up on a ketogenic diet that’s using MCT oils, fine. We’ll take them off the MCT oil. I’ll have them use olive oil. I’ll have the person eat once a day or the other option we can go down. I’ll still use a heavy olive oil diet and have them do a periodic fast. Depending on the individual, they can decide how long they want that periodic fast to be. I’m in the midst of doing this right now, rewriting my book, The Wahls Protocol. I’ll be taking a lot more about a periodic fast and how to modify the ketogenic diet to keep your cardiologist from being so stressed out in terms of them wanting you to restrict fat. I don’t want to restrict fat. If you have a cardiologist who’s very concerned, use lots of olive oil. The cardiologists are usually very happy with that. You can have low fat, but that’s going to wreck your brain.

It will be hard to argue the benefits of or to say that olive oil is dangerous given the Mediterranean diet data. It’s impossible to argue with the value of olive oil.

In most of the studies that have used olive oils, they’ve had to stop them early because of the striking benefits from taking one to two tablespoons of olive oil as a supplement. That’s a very safe intervention.

I think also, when people say that they’re on a ketogenic diet or they go on Paleo and their cholesterol levels go up. I typically say, “So what?” You follow your ancestral diets and your levels will go to where they need to go. I wanted them to take it one step further because the cardiologists are not doing this. They’re not fractionating the lipids very often. They’re not looking at April B, April A ratios. They’re not looking at the inflammation. “My total cholesterol went from 180 to 230.” Maybe that’s a good thing. If your ratio is still preserved, which the literature says it does and your inflammation goes down.

Your age is going up. The particle size makes all the favorable changes, then that’s perfectly fine. There are some folks who use coconut milk, coconut MCT oil. Their cholesterol suddenly goes from 200 to 350. The person is like, “That’s fine. Go off the coconut oil and we’ll use olive oil.”

We've created a food industry that has been allowed to design food for maximum profit. Click To Tweet

For those people, I tend to push them more towards the whole food. Maybe the added oils for you, in particular, are not the best. Let’s go with eating olives, eating the coconut itself, eating the avocado, but in no way should we ever put those people to low fat. I agree with you. That is an absolutely devastating idea. As far as supplements are concerned, what are maybe two or three of your favorite supplements?

Measure your Vitamin D level and get that fixed. Measure your homocysteine level, then I would probably get a full Vitamin B12. You can titrate your B vitamins to take care of your homocysteine. Digestive enzymes can help make sure that you are digesting your proteins fully because if your proteins are completely digested, you’re less likely to have these proteins get over into your bloodstream with a leaky gut. You’ll have less food sensitivity issues. Those are the three big categories that I would think about. I’m fond of cod liver oil because you’ll get some Vitamin A, Retinol, some Vitamin D and the EPA, DHA, Omega-3s there as well.

What are your thoughts on probiotic supplementation?

I think probiotic supplementation, we don’t know. I’m very fond of eating fermented foods and a wide variety of fermented foods. I’m very fond of having a lot of fiber in your diet. Everyone should do the daily microbiome test known as having a ball movement, standing up, turning around and examine it. Deciding are you pooping rocks, logs, snakes, pudding, or tea? If you’ve got pudding or tea, you need less fiber. If you have snakes, it’s perfect. If you have easily passed logs, that’s okay. If you have rocks, you need more fiber.

Are you one of these people who pushes people to drink a lot of water? Are you big one of these drink half your body weight in ounces daily?

We should drink according to our thirst and our appetite. Eat according to our appetite. I don’t think my ancestors weighed themselves. They drank when they were thirsty. They ate when they were hungry. I would also make the observation. Food wasn’t readily available. You had to do a lot of work to get it. You would probably not have any. That’s probably hormetic stress to periodically be thirsty and to periodically be hungry.

You also mentioned it before as far as fasting. Your new book is going to contain some additional information about fasting and the latest and greatest on fasting.

We’re working on that, plus a bill to update our research that’s come out so that’s very exciting.

Coffee, yay or nay?

As long as you can sleep well at night, coffee is fine. There are plenty of studies that have shown consuming coffee lowers the risk of cancer, heart attack, and dementia. A couple of cups a day are also protective of autoimmunity as well. Coffee is a protective food. If you are a slow metabolizer, it’s what keeps you awake at night, then you have to either limit it to a smaller dose in the morning. Some folks won’t be able to tolerate at all. I’m usually activated. If I have coffee, I can’t sleep. I’ll drink tea, but no coffee.

HHS 24 | AutoImmune Disease

AutoImmune Disease: The answer is not the vitamin D supplementation, but the sun.


The antioxidants in coffee, especially when it’s a quality coffee, I think are so tremendous and beneficial. I’m not saying that because I love to drink coffee. My father wasn’t a coffee drinker. Back then, I was in Chicago. It was the big tin of Folgers and Maxwell House or maybe even instant coffee, that kind of poison. The ability now to go out and get a good organic variety, something that is tested low for mold. My favorite coffee is Purity Coffee and a tremendous high source of antioxidants to combat all that free radical damage.

Coffee or organic cocoa, wonderfully good for you.

When does the new book come out?

It should be the spring of 2020. We have to turn in our manuscript at the end of February. I am in the midst of writing right now. It’s lots of fun to review and update of spent the last several months going through the literature and trying to decide what to include, what not to include.

TerryWahls.com/Diet is where you’re going to get your free download about the one-page. Put up on your refrigerator all the stuff that Dr. Wahls recommends as far as food is concerned. She’s all organic. She’s all about eating good quality, high fat. She loves her seafood and her sunshine. It’s probably not too much sunshine in Iowa this time of year. Am I correct?

There’s sun but it’s low in the horizons. It can’t make much of a tan but still go outside, still enjoy. Teddy and I took a lovely walk. We did have a huge snow storm. We had about a foot of snow on the ground.

Are you such a good dog owner? Your dog is so lucky. Getting this whole massage for the last hour. How lucky is your doggie?

The social bonding for our pet is very important. It’s a very helpful thing.

Cardiovascular risk, I read a whole chapter in my book called One Nation Under Prozac and the mental health issues of society. We’re not deficient in Prozac, but social isolation is such a horrible thing and having a pet is so beneficial for that as you know. Ladies and gentlemen, Dr. Jack Wolfson, the Paleo cardiologist, another episode of the Healthy Heart Show with Dr. Terry Wahls. Check out her website and stay tuned for her new book. It won’t be out for a little while, but I’ll be a huge promoter of that. Make sure everybody in my tribe and my space knows about it. Thank you again, Dr. Wahls, for being on the show.

Thank you.

We’ll see you next time on the Healthy Heart Show.

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About Dr. Terry Wahls

HHS 24 | AutoImmune DiseaseDr. Terry Wahls is a clinical professor of medicine at the University of Iowa where she conducts clinical trials. She is also a patient with secondary progressive multiple sclerosis, which confined her to a tilt-recline wheelchair for four years. Dr. Wahls restored her health using a diet and lifestyle program she designed specifically for her brain and now pedals her bike to work each day. She is the author of The Wahls Protocol: How I Beat Progressive MS Using Paleo Principles and Functional MedicineThe Wahls Protocol: A Radical New Way to Treat All Chronic Autoimmune Conditions Using Paleo Principles (paperback), and the cookbook The Wahls Protocol Cooking for Life: The Revolutionary Modern Paleo Plan to Treat All Chronic Autoimmune Conditions.

She conducts clinical trials that test the effect of nutrition and lifestyle interventions to treat MS and other progressive health problems. Learn more about Dr. Wahls’ clinical trials here. She also teaches the public and medical community about the healing power of the Paleo diet and therapeutic lifestyle changes that restore health and vitality to our citizens. She hosts a Wahls Protocol Seminar every August where anyone can learn how to implement the Protocol with ease and success. Follow her on Facebook (Terry Wahls MD) and on Twitter at @TerryWahls.