HHS 33 | Vaccines


Contrary to what most people think, vaccines pose threats to our health more than what’s expected. In this episode, Dr. Jack Wolfson meets with Del Matthew Bigtree. Together, they go through the reality of living a clean life without vaccines. They talk about the dangers of vaccines and how it can cause some form of injury, whether it is short-term or long-term. Sharing their views on our body’s responses towards some bacteria and viruses, they discuss the benefits of rolling with natural immunity. Del also shares his thoughts about the chicken pox outbreak while going through the topic of quarantine, touching on the choice of parenting as well as the role of the government.

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Chicken Pox, Vaccines, Clean Life And More with Del Matthew Bigtree

We’d talk a little bit about everything.

How have you been?

I’ve been well. How’s everything with the house?

I’ve come to terms with the fact that we’re being led out of California. I was asking questions right before the house burned down. It was my mother-in-law’s home. It’s spectacular. It was utopia. We tried to get Senator Pan kicked out. We couldn’t do that. I was looking at things like Nazi Germany, why didn’t the Jews get out of there? You see it coming. I was saying to Lee, “I’m concerned that because we live in such a beautiful home, this home may be clouding our vision. We’re supposed to be perhaps moving on and getting out of here.” Literally a week later, it’s gone. You have to take some thought in there. When I was like, “Show me another sign.” Two days later, a good friend of my son’s, ten years old, fell through the skylight in his house. His mother called me. I said, “Is he bleeding?” She’s like, “It’s like a road rash. He doesn’t need a vaccine. Besides, it’s too late for it anyway.” It’s like, “I know I said all those things.” I said, “Stay in your ground.” Ten hours later she calls me sobbing. She’s like, “They’ve got Child Protective Services on the way if I don’t get this vaccine.” I’ve had it with California. This place has gone absolutely nuts.

I think somebody told me that you guys were thinking about that as well and that Nazi Germany analogy, it’s sad. It’s a reality. It is in those states. It’s so amazingly beautiful except for the mass of humanity and all the politics and everything. It’s so sad how we’ve destroyed such a beautiful environment.

It is terrible. We’re looking at Arizona. Arizona is in there. Do you think your laws are going to hold up for a while?

There are three exemptions in Arizona. Governor Doug Ducey is a Republican and whether Republicans or Democrats, whatever. He has stated that under his watch there will be no changes in vaccine legislation. They tried to push something through about this educational process where if you’re going to refuse vaccines, you have to be educated. You have to do the whole video seminar and that failed. There’s still a lot of pushback and a lot of anger amongst people that, “What’s the big deal? You should have to watch this video.” It’s like, “Maybe you should watch one of our videos.” Watch the video and let’s teach it that way. Governor Doug Ducey, Heather and I, we’ve spoken with him on several occasions. We’ve been down in Arizona legislature and talking to them as well. Things can flip on a dime very quickly. We’ve relocated to Colorado.

The only thing that keeps me from Colorado is my own family. I caught Lee looking at houses in Boulder. I was like, “What are you doing?”

Denver, Colorado Springs, I’m no expert on those communities. They’re also very polluted. They’re very overly populated. We moved outside of Aspen. We went from six million people in Phoenix to 6,000 in the town that we’re in.

What town are you in?

We’re in Carbondale, Colorado. Our kids are at a Waldorf School in Carbondale, Colorado. When we came out here, we were excited because Waldorf, if you read the old stuff on Rudolf Steiner, anti-vaccine 1917. He was like Nostradamus describing the whole situation now. The people at the school asked us, they said, “We’re anti-media. We’re into eating organic food. We love gluten free. We want children to play, all these great things. We’re a little concerned about you and the Wolfsons because of your anti-vaccine stance and the things you’ve said. Are you going to start trying to proselytize and tell everybody here?” We said, “People ask us, we’re going to talk about it. I’m not going to go out on the stump in front of the school and start giving a lecture. Heather might. I can’t speak for her, she might.”

Even still when you read what Rudolf Steiner said about vaccines, it’s incredible to me that’s even a statement by a Waldorf School. You couldn’t get someone that was more prophetic about the danger of the future of vaccines. Essentially, he said this is going to be the death of the soul. We left the Waldorf School because they would not say that they would protect our kids. All I was asking for when we’re at the school was, “Will you at least call us if the police come where they’re saying there’s some outbreak? Will you call us so we could come to get our kids?” They’re like, “I don’t know. We’re going to do whatever we’re told to do.” I was like, “I’m out.”

There are those of us that just simply deserve the right to live a clean life. Click To Tweet

It’s not a good option. What were your thoughts on the chickenpox outbreak? It happened in North Carolina and all the blowback they got. What was your take on that whole situation?

With the chickenpox outbreaks, it’s ridiculous how upset people get. It’s the chickenpox. I put a video out about chickenpox. Show me anyone who ever remembers your grandparents or anyone telling you his story about someone dying from the chickenpox? Yet in the news, you hear deadly. They’re literally starting to refer to chickenpox as deadly. What we’re watching is the same playbook they pulled on measles where they rewrote the history of measles and made it the black plague when everybody got it. No one was afraid of it. It was a Brady Bunch episode. Now right before our eyes for this generation that still remembers getting chickenpox, they’re doing the same thing to chickenpox. They’re trying to make us terrified of the chickenpox. For those of us that are into vaccine risk awareness, personally, I don’t take issue with them not wanting my kid in school if they’re unvaccinated. I don’t think that that’s our fight. People are complaining that they’re checking our kids out of school because there’s an outbreak. If you’re going to not vaccinate what you’re saying is that you believe that quarantine is a better approach towards stopping the spread of infectious disease.

We know the Leicester experiment, that polio was stopped. The only place that truly eradicated polio didn’t have polio issues at the time was the one town that used quarantine as the way they dealt with it versus inoculating everybody. I think that I would piss a lot of people off by saying this that are in our movement. If there’s an outbreak in town, one of the things we accept as part of that is, “We’ve got to bring our kids home and school them. I think we could start demanding some satellite training for our kids. They’re in an online school that while we’re out of the school.” Personally, I think that if you’re going to argue natural approaches to immunity and natural approaches to infectious disease, you have to accept that we believe in quarantining them. What are your thoughts on it?

I would have to disagree with you. I don’t believe in quarantine because as you said, if there’s a chickenpox outbreak in the school, I want my kids to get exposed. I want them to get exposed initially because I want them to get chickenpox. My boys, they’ve not been officially diagnosed with chickenpox. Let me say, I highly believe they’ve had chickenpox. I’m qualifying this because there’s likely some a-hole who’s going to read this conversation. He’s going to say, “Wolfson’s kids had chickenpox. They didn’t report it to the state authorities. They didn’t seek out medical treatment.”

I don’t know for sure my kids had chickenpox. I think they did. That being said, I want them to get that continuous exposure. Chickenpox should be all over society because that’ll prevent shingles and unknown benefits that once again science hasn’t told us yet. The idea of quarantine, I understand how that could theoretically stop the spread of things like Ebola and whatnot. The healthy strong person shouldn’t have a problem with that. Your kids, they’re fed organic food, they’d go to sleep on time, and they’re not glued into the television set 24/7. They’re getting sunshine. If they’re healthy kids away from all the chemicals, I’m not afraid of the poliovirus. I’m not afraid of any virus. I’m not afraid of any bacteria. I’m not afraid of any parasites. We’ve been with those things for millions of years. That’s how I feel.

I totally agree with you on a personal level. I think that where you and I tend to diverge a little bit is I look at the political climate and where are we strongest and where our strongest arguments. I love the fact that you are as pure and clear. You live exactly how you speak. I live a little cleaner life than I talk about. I too want my kids to get the chickenpox. It’s a heavy lift to get people to accept, “We want chickenpox. We want it in an environment,” when we’re trying to work on acceptance. We’re trying to get people to understand where we’re at. I think it’s a little bit too big a step. I could be wrong. This isn’t something I’m die hard on. I haven’t even spoken about on my show on that level. I think that fear shouldn’t be there. Chickenpox should be. We know everyone’s healthier if they get natural chickenpox. I think back to when I was a kid. I always think how was I raised? My mom didn’t vaccinate me. I remember once it was in my third grade, they started doing strep cultures on everybody in the school. I don’t know the strep was going around. I tested positive and they said, “You’ve got to go home.” My mom didn’t fight it. She was like, “Okay, fine.” I took a bunch of Vitamin C.

HHS 33 | Vaccines

Vaccines: We want an environment where we’re trying to work on acceptance and getting people to understand where we’re at.


I never got sick. I got a week off from school. I had a good time. It didn’t bother me and maybe perhaps because I was homeschooled, I never saw it. There are people that have a lot of trouble because if their kid is sent home, they can’t go to work. It messes up their lives. That’s perhaps something I’m not taking into account because my parents didn’t have that issue. I personally don’t have that issue. My kids, they are at home. When they were in school, I wouldn’t have had a problem them being home. All of these things, I’m thinking out loud with you. The things that Informed Consent Action Network focuses on, my nonprofit, are places we can win the public and get the public onto our side. I try to stay focused on those places where we can find some common ground, the issues of safety, of vaccines, all of that. We’re winning there. This issue of my kid should be in school during a measles outbreak or chickenpox outbreak. I know you’re right. I’m not sure if it helps us in the current climate of winning over society to accepting that there’s those of us that simply deserve the right to live a clean life.

There are a lot of different battlegrounds to fight on. Where Heather and I choose to fight on could be considered extreme. It’s taking that sledgehammer approach and hitting people over the head and say, “No, we want to embrace these viruses and bacteria because that’s the way we’ve done it for millions of years. We want to push the health and the wellness of the child and not be fearful of these things.” If there is a measles outbreak at the school and we want to take our children home, that should be our choice. We shouldn’t say, “You’ve got to be home 21 days. You’ve got to be out.” We want society to understand that these infections have benefits. They’ve had benefits for millions of years in a symbiotic relationship.

You are one of the guys that had been boots on the forefront of getting that across the different brain issues and heart issues that can be alleviated simply by having had your childhood illnesses. It’s great. One of the things I’ve been thinking about lately is that I think they’re on the verge of destroying their own herd immunity argument. At that point, it’s going to disappear. Because if you think about it, when I was a kid and we weren’t being vaccinated, there was always issues at school. This isn’t brand new. The school would say, “We have a vaccination policy.” My mom would say, “What is your problem with my child? If vaccinations worked and you believe in them, what risk is my child to your students?” They never had an answer for that. This whole herd immunity thing is new. I’ve watched it started appearing and being used years ago. They started years ago, but it started becoming this, months from that. They worked at it. I’m 48 years old. It took them 40 years. I’m sure people before us were using that same argument to figure out a way around it.

They’d been like, “How do we get around this argument that our products work, but we need to force you to use it.” They came up with the immunosuppressed child. It’s the immunosuppressed child that can’t be vaccinated. That’s why you have to be vaccinated. I don’t know if you’ve been watching this case of this medical kidnapping story up in New York where they’re forcing this teenager to have chemo, even though he had already had his first round. There’s no cancer in his body. They extricated him out of Florida. They brought him back beyond his will, outside of his parent’s will to put them back into chemo. What’s fascinating is they brought the argument that now the oncologist wants to give the kid a flu shot. The argument that was made in court against that but now it’s on hold, they’re going do some depositions and stuff. The argument was, “If this child has already been through chemo, his immune system is absolutely destroyed at the moment. If the entire purpose of vaccines is this herd immunity idea, isn’t the immunosuppressed child that’s not supposed to be having to get it and everybody else is?” The judge was like, “It’s a good point.” The truth is they are vaccinating everybody. They don’t think there’s a danger. In fact, before a kidney surgery or before going into chemo, they want to vaccinate everybody. Before you go into a heart surgery now, they want to give you flu shots and vaccinations. To me then, what would be an immunosuppressed child if it’s not the cancer patient, who is it? You’re not going to stop them. The insanity of hyper-stimulating an immune system that’s not there throwing up potentially live virus or killed virus into a body that has no current immune system that you’ve already wiped out through chemotherapy.

To me, what they’re showing you is they don’t believe that there is such a child that can’t be vaccinated. If we can hold them at that, then you’ve lost your argument of why I have to be vaccinated again because you’re vaccinating everybody. There is no immunosuppressed child. Therefore, I’m back to the original argument which is if your vaccine works there and you are vaccinating your immunosuppressed cancer patients, then you’re protected supposedly if your product works. I shouldn’t be forced to use a product that I don’t believe in, especially if you’re protected from me. We may be coming full circle back to the original argument. They are proving that they don’t believe in herd immunity.

You touched on the medical kidnapping. How often do you think this is going on? Do you think it’s going to get worse? Is it a matter of they’re going to kidnap for about vaccines? They’re going to get a map about chemotherapy. They’ll kidnap maybe about diabetes, drugs.

My child, my choice. Click To Tweet

Where does it stop? If a teacher is saying, “I cannot teach my class. Your child is disrupting the class. The only way I can teach my class is if they’re on the drugs that our school nurse said they need to be on or our school therapist said they need to be on.” I say this is the slippery slope that people that even think they believe in vaccines here in California that are watching this go by. You let pharma force a product upon your kids or they can’t get an education. You’ve already opened the door. Do you think it stops at vaccines? Why can’t they make the same argument that for the good of the whole, your child has to be on a psychotropic drug? We need to give your child Ritalin or we need to calm your child down. Your daughter is emotional right now and is going through an emotional period. She needs to have Prozac.

We’ve opened that door here in California. What the parent thinks and what the parent cares about or how the parent is raising their child has no effect on the laws here. The law supersedes the parent. That’s the danger. That’s why I think Senator Richard Pan in California is one of the most dangerous politicians we’ve ever seen in America. It goes back to errors that have happened throughout history. When you let the government believe it supersedes the human being or supersedes the family or supersedes the parent, we’ve already done that. We call it medical kidnapping. For some, they’re like, “Good. I think the kid needs chemo. That’s great.”

Even though you looked at the stats and the chances of this kid surviving the chemo are like 50%. The chance of living beyond two years after it is only 10% or some ridiculous amount. They’re only going to extend the life of this child a couple of years. This kid is saying, “I feel good now. I don’t want any more of this. I don’t want to take the risk of dying to go through this process. I want it to work naturally and go to a natural practitioner.” The fact that kid, his concerns aren’t being met, his parents’ concerns aren’t being met and the oncologist overrides that the doctor has power over your child. We’re entering an era now where I’m starting to look at hospitals unfortunately like prisons or like concentration camps.

If my child breaks a leg or has an injury, I simply want the bone fixed. There are things that I believe medicine is great at. If you’re in a car accident, all of those ER doctors, great surgeons, that puts you back together. I love science. I love that. I don’t believe in the preventative approach that Western medicine has towards health. I don’t believe in it. Many of the reasons you pointed out, we’re supposed to have these diseases, to begin with. If I can’t take my kid and get that boneset that’s broken or from some natural accident without now having Child Protective Services being brought in because they’re challenging my lifestyle and my choices, we’re in real trouble. It’s starting to take on this feeling that it’s illegal to raise your child with organic food, clean, crystal clear water, they’re filtered or spring water, and avoid all toxins.

Not only do I not vaccinate my kid, but I also don’t feed my kid Doritos. I don’t give them junk food. There are a lot of chemicals. I’m avoiding the hormone. I was on a radio show and the guy challenged me. He’s like, “How do you know that the autoimmune diseases that you’re blaming on vaccines aren’t from, for instance, the hormones we’re putting in cows to make them grow faster or the chickens or the herbicides and pesticides they’re spraying on our food, the fertilizers that are going in the ground? How do you know that that’s not causing the autoimmune disease?” He was pro-vaccine. He was out of New Jersey. He was up there arguing this measles outbreak. He’s very pro-vaccine. I said, “I agree with you completely. We should be spending millions and millions of dollars investigating the hormones going into food, investigating the pesticides and the herbicides. Here’s the problem. The FDA and the CDC that you’re telling me I’m supposed to turn my life over to and believe them that they say the vaccines are safe. You just named six or seven products they approve. They approve the same hormone, the same issues you’re bringing up. The FDA and the CDC are corrupted by those very industries. They have Monsanto working at the FDA. They have Merck inside of the CDC. Because of that, I don’t trust the science.”

The guy literally said, “I’m not saying I trust government agencies. I don’t think they are looking out for us.” I said, “We are on the same page. We are not against each other. We need to join forces. For some reason, you want to believe the science coming out of the CDC on vaccines, but you don’t believe it when it comes to all the food substances, the pesticides, and herbicides, OxyContin or whatever.” I don’t know why there’s a faith in vaccines that goes beyond the reality we have when we look at pharma in any other category. Most people don’t trust pharma. Why is it they trust vaccines? We’re getting there is my point. We need you, Jack. I need you out there speaking the hard-line truth. It’s true. I’m raising my kids the way you are and the way you talk about it. Politically and where I’m working, I’m trying to get to a different population. I’m trying to get into the rooms of politicians that are clinging to religion. They think it is science. If I can unearth that a little bit, this whole thing is going to start flowing your direction. I’m an entry point. You’re an endpoint. All of us are needed.

HHS 33 | Vaccines

Vaccines: We cannot let the law supersede the parent. How the parent is raising their child has no effect on the laws.


My concern with the message of freedom of choice is that freedom of choice was tried in California and that was the argument and they’re at lost. Maybe next time around freedom of choice will win. I know you and I was saying the same thing. I know you believe it as well. We have to talk strictly about not freedom of choice, but that vaccines are dangerous. Vaccines can always cause some form of injury, whether it’s short-term, long-term, we have to identify what the injury is. We need to talk about all the benefits of these bacteria and viruses. I don’t call them diseases. It’s all our body’s response right to the virus, the bacteria. This is what we would classify as a disease.

The way I would roll with it is we have natural immunity. There are examples like physicians for informed consent. I was one of the founding people in that group. I dropped out of the group because the group was all about making sure that people get the information. It wasn’t strict enough. It wasn’t about to clean your vaccines. It was about, “The Wolfsons are anti-vaccine.” There is a certain woman who ran for president. She launched in 2016, Hillary Clinton. Hillary Clinton, she’s famous for stating, “Your children are our property. They’re the property of the state.”

Through all of that, number one, I completely agree with you. We’re facing this in every state that’s still got its exemptions. It’s under siege by the pharmaceutical industry. There is clearly a push for the pharmaceutical industry to own our bodies through their power being the number one lobby now in Washington outspending oil and gas, two to one. There is a real danger to arguing, “My child, my choice. I have the right to choose.” It did fail in California. It’s something I’ve warned people I’ve talked to in Texas. I travel around. I talk to politicians. I meet with groups. I meet at state capitals all over the country. I always say do not run on a straight choice platform.

It does come down to a choice. I do believe in choice. I am not an abolitionist when it comes to vaccines because I feel like that would be me turning around and doing exactly what they’re doing to me, which is mandating an ideal upon somebody else. I’m not here to tell you to stop vaccinating. I won’t tell anyone to stop vaccinating except for maybe HPV vaccine and Hepatitis B, which are insane. I personally am not going to use those things. You have the right to choose. It’s a free country. It’s your kids. If you want to feed them to Doritos. I can’t stop you from doing that. If you want to give them an orange drink instead of water or Diet Coke, there’s nothing I can do about that. Personally, I think it’s child abuse. That’s up to you. That’s happening inside of your household. That’s what this country represents. It’s dangerous to turn it over. I don’t want a totalitarian state run by clean living people. I don’t want a totalitarian state at all. I don’t want the government to ever have that much power. That’s where I draw the line.

I know you as a father and I know the most important thing in the entire world to you are your children. How do we define child abuse? Is there a cutoff when we say, “That is a situation where the child needs to be removed because we would agree that if a child was being physically abused, that child needs to be removed?” We as a society have drawn a line to say, “A child cannot be physically abused. Therefore, the state needs to step in to be removed from custody.” We can’t say, “That’s my child. I can do whatever I want.” I agree. I’m anti-legislation and antigovernment. For me, Jack Wolfson, I do want to make those laws. I do want to make the laws an ideal situation. That vaccines are wrong. You cannot vaccinate. You cannot feed your kid Doritos. You cannot let your child watch TV for twelve hours a day. Tell me, where do we draw the line?

That is the question. First of all, I grapple with all the time. It’s also why I’ve become so passionate reading about my founding fathers and thinking about what that moment was like. If you were going to try and create a perfect government or a perfect political system, it’s virtually impossible. When you read what our founding fathers saying when they were coming around trying to create a truly free country, freedom has rules. That’s what it comes down to. Freedom has got to have rules because your freedom can impinge on somebody else. Where do you see our founding fathers talking about government? They essentially say, “We’ve picked this democratic structure of capitalism.”

Freedom has got to have rules because your freedom can impinge on somebody else. Click To Tweet

They give us warning after warning saying, “This is necessary evil. Government by nature is evil. This is a monster that will take over your lives. It will devour you. It has in almost every spectrum we’ve looked at, we’ve looked at communism, every attempt around the world. We don’t see anyone has ever created a perfect society where the government doesn’t take control.” What they tried to tell us is don’t because of your personal value system or because of the things you care about or the things that you fear. Do not legislate somebody else’s morality or legislate the things to try and make people better people. Because if you do, as Ben Franklin puts it, “If you tried to protect yourself, you give away a little of liberty to gain a little safety, you’ll have neither liberty nor safety.” That’s the truth here. We could have this discussion of where would the line be.

Jack, I grew up a progressive liberal in Boulder, Colorado. I’m still an environmentalist. I still think we’re destroying our environment. The argument of global warming is a stupid argument. Whether or not the earth is warming, it’s not an approach that works. I don’t think it sells because people only think about now. We’ve been trained to be so immediate to worry about it. I’m just ranting it with a friend of mine the other day. Don’t worry about the ocean’s going to be a foot deeper because some ice is melting 50 years from now. Who cares? I do because I look in the future, but 99.99999% of our society is not going to care what’s happening 50 years from now. Change the argument. The argument is your kid has asthma right now because of the amount of fossil fuel they’re breathing.

Right now, your water sucks. You can’t eat tuna fish because there’s too much pollution going into the ocean. You can’t live the life you could live if we simply cleaned up our act, if we use more solar panels. We use more wind energy. If we got ourselves a place that’s all things that I care about, but as a progressive liberal or what I used to be, I now live in California, which is the most progressive liberal space there is in this country. As I was telling you at the beginning of this, I’m worried that I don’t have rights anymore because, in order for progressive liberalism to work, it’s decided essentially. I remember thinking like this. I remember when I had a talk with my family, we all wanted a benevolent dictator. We didn’t want to have to deal with the system. We knew we had the better ideal. We should elect somebody and say, “Screw it. I’m going to use executive action.” I can’t tell you how many people wanted Obama, I voted for him, wanted him to use executive actions to pass all the stuff that he’s being filibustered on by Republicans.

Now we have a Republican that’s doing what? He’s using executive actions because our government is no longer working. Jack, it’s a slippery slope any way you slice it whether it’s for our ideals or somebody else’s to use mandates and bring in the idea that its child abuse. Believe me, I used to say that I thought when someone’s coming out of a shopping center with colored orange drink and crappy food and fruit loops that they should be stopped. There should be the police that stands there and say, “You are immediately going to be enrolled into a class and we’re going to teach you how to feed your children because they are going to die early. They’re going to be sick. They’re going to cost us all a fortune. If you don’t comply after having the knowledge, then that it’s child abuse.”

That was the thinking of a progressive liberal. I see the danger of that because it’s the same type of thinking that has people thinking they can force vaccinate me and my kids. That’s their belief system. They’re allowed to have it. They’re not allowed to force it upon me. It’s dangerous for any side. What we need to do is start saying, “We’ve got to get back to a place where I will teach classes. I will do my show, the high wire, you’ll speak to people. I will try to change your mind.” We are changing more minds than we ever had. I will use science and literature and speaking to raise the consciousness of society, but we can’t use the government to do it because it only ends up eating us.

The whole 2015 mandatory vaccination policy was strictly class warfare because I can only imagine it, and you’ll tell me because you’re a California Insider. People would say, “We’re not forcing your child to get vaccinated. They can be homeschooled.” The poor Hispanics, single woman to stereotype here, she had no choice. She has to work. Her child has to be in school. She has to vaccinate. That’s all there is to it. Those people all got vaccinated. They didn’t get medical exemptions. What about all the rich hot shots in Malibu and Marine County? What do they do? They didn’t take their kids in a doctor to get loaded up with the jab, what happened to them?

HHS 33 | Vaccines

Vaccines: If a child was being physically abused, then that child needs to be removed from that environment.


I think that first of all, we see reported all over the country now that they used to try and say that it was uneducated people that were not vaccinated. It was like the poor people in mobile home parks or somewhere. They’ve gotten away from that because they know it’s not true. The biggest hot spots are usually around Waldorf schools. Waldorf isn’t cheap. It’s not cheap to go to a private school that has a good education system. Those of us that are drawn to those types of private school systems tend to have a philosophy. What we are reporting more and more is that in the highly intellectual areas around Silicon Valley, around areas where there’s industry, where there are millionaires, that the rich educated people are the ones that are not vaccinating their kids.

They tried to fight that for a long time. Now they know that it’s true, but you’re right. It’s socio-economic enslavement in a way. If you don’t have the money to bring your child home and school them at home or to have a path to some doctor that’s going to write a medical exemption or something like that, whether or not they’re paying people up. I have no idea how people are doing that. I haven’t even attempted to get a medical exemption for my kids because I’m Del Bigtree. I’m so screwed up if I take them to any hospital. It doesn’t matter who wrote off. All I’m going to do is get some doctor’s license revoked. I’m in a position that’s different than most because I’m so outspoken. I can’t even fall back on some of the quiet things that people are doing.

It’s been argued. It was argued when SB 277 happened that this puts an unfair burden upon people that are in a weak socioeconomic space. That’s not fair. Our Constitution doesn’t allow for that. That argument has been attempted. I’ve seen some cases where people are going to try and fight SB 277 bringing that argument up again. We’ve looked into this. I’m not a lawyer. I have a great legal team, so I tried to push things forward. One of the things when you take away a right, which is what SB 277 did, everyone recognizes that you are going to force inject, you were going to inject into a person’s body beyond their wishes or into a child beyond their parents’ wishes.

We all know that goes against the Constitution of the United States, but there are some rules to it. If there’s an outbreak and there’s a danger. They keep referring back to a case around smallpox as though chickenpox is smallpox, right there is a joke. We’re going back so far in time to a case that’s set precedent. The law basically says if you’re going to take the rights away from a citizen, you have to use the least damaging approach you can. You have to have all of the right reasoning, but it has to affect everybody equally. It has to be the least aggressive approach you can take. SB 277 fails in every single department. We already know that for instance, Tdap vaccine, the tetanus is not a communicable disease, diphtheria and then you have pertussis. It doesn’t protect against transmission.

There’s one vaccine that you’re forcing upon people that doesn’t even meet the criteria. It’s unnecessary if your argument is herd immunity. It’s an unnecessary vaccine. You should be able to opt out right there, but you can’t. That shows that the government has overstepped. It hasn’t taken the least dramatic means. It’s taking the most aggressive means. Meaning we’re making you get vaccines that don’t even fit into our argument of herd immunity. Those are things that are taking place here. There’s a danger, Jack. We’ve had so many failed lawsuits in California. Believe me, my legal team has been the number one priority. Where can we fight SB 277? Frankly, there’s been such bad missteps that have set precedent against us that now it’s dangerous. We’re still looking at a couple of options, but I don’t want to be a part of one more lawsuit that closes the door and then can be used on precedent. If it gets up to the Supreme Court and becomes a national decision, then I screw Colorado and Arizona and everywhere else.

This is a dangerous time. California is a dangerous place to be with our philosophy. It’s a dangerous place to now fight because it’s so far down the road. All I can say is warning to everyone out there, do not get yourself in a position we find ourselves here in California. You must get involved with your vaccine risk awareness movement. Sometimes it’s called health freedom, vaccine freedom, whoever it is, whatever it is. That is the most important caucus you should be in. You should be going to every time are at the state capitol and politicians. You should be a part of this because this is the end. I don’t think there’s any topic that represents the destruction of freedom and the dream of our founding fathers more than this vaccine issue.

We've been trained to be so immediate that to worry about the future is just ranting. Click To Tweet

I’m talking to people that believe in vaccines too. Once you let your body be injected by the government beyond your choice, you have destroyed the Nuremberg Code, which is what we were supposed to have learned from Nazi Germany when we put sixteen doctors on trial for experimenting and injecting and trying medical procedures on innocent people outside of their wishes. We are supposed to have consent. This is America and this vaccine issue is destroying consent. Once you accept the destruction of consent, then the door is wide open. Doctors and medicine can do anything they want to you.

I’d have to say that I’m never someone to give up, but I agree that California is a lost state. If we use the analogy that this is a war, that battleground is lost. It’s time for retreat. Let’s get back over to our bunker over here and continue to fight from this and then hopefully we’ll be able to overtake that state in the future. Let me ask you this though. Tell me about freedom of speech. What risk do you and I have right now of communicating them shutting us down? What risk is the high wire under shutting it down? What risk is your Facebook page being shut down, your Pinterest page, your LinkedIn profile? Google is shutting down Mike Adams, other people. Give me an update. What’s going on with our freedom of speech like this?

We are hanging in the balance. This topic brings it up. Freedom of speech is everything. It is in its dying breath. When I see our media, what it represents now as freedom of speech. When it attacks people for things they’ve said or you hurt someone’s feelings or those were angry words is dangerous talk. When you look at students at campuses now that say that you are not free to make statements that hurt my feelings. I’d say you are. You are free. If we lose that freedom, there’s nothing left here or there. You don’t have freedoms once that collapses. We are in a very dangerous position. These are private corporations making these decisions.

Facebook, YouTube, Twitter and all of them, they’re private entities. They can do whatever they want except that we’ve all made a social contract with each other that this is how we’re going to communicate with each other. This is a piece of paper now. It’s like saying if you write on paper, you must adhere to these rules. That’s the death of freedom of speech. Clearly, our government isn’t going to step up and try and stop them from curbing free speech. In fact, they’re behind trying to shut down free speech. The proof of that is Senator Richard Pan again who passed SB 277 in California, managed to get through Congress and Senate a law to censor the internet. It was Online False Information Act, whatever it was called.

The idea was he believes that everyone online should have to have fact checkers that can check everything they’re saying to make sure that it’s true. You can say to yourself again, “That sounds like a good idea.” Why have bad information out there except one of the biggest liars I’ve ever seen is Senator Richard Pan himself. When I see a liar trying to pass the truth on internet law, I get nervous. It went into looking at texts. It said it right in the body of the law. Looking at your emails, looking at texts, being able to fact check how people are communicating with each other. That’s as Orwellian as it gets. You don’t get closer to the science fiction movie than that.

Here’s what’s terrifying. I didn’t think I lived in a country that would accept someone taking freedom of speech that far. That’s the same as burning books. That’s saying the government has to approve your language, which is exactly with 1984. People sit there and approve the language. It goes down the chute that’s acceptable or the one that’s not. That was the whole idea. We thought that was science fiction. I couldn’t believe that not only could a politician run a law like that and not get chased out of every free city in America with pitchforks and torches. It made it through both houses and only didn’t pass because Jerry Brown said, “This is a little over the top and unnecessary.” We got saved by Jerry Brown, but that means there’s more than one idiot in there. There are hundreds of people that have lost touch with freedom so completely that editing someone’s texts and emails and Facebook pages seem reasonable to them. Are we in danger? I don’t know how I’m still broadcasting, to be honest with you. There are people that have been shut down who have lost their Facebook accounts, who are simply sharing one of my episodes. That was the final straw and they can’t get their Facebook page back. We’ve had multiple reports like that.

HHS 33 | Vaccines

Vaccines: If your argument is herd immunity, it’s an unnecessary vaccine.


How I’m even up on Facebook, I don’t know. We are pretty sure that we are being censored almost like they’re running a rake through the people that follow us. Because when you watch our show, you watched so many people commenting, I can’t share it or it keeps crashing. I didn’t believe it until it happened with my own phone, I couldn’t open up my show one time. I think that sporadically taking out large parts of our audience. Because they’re not doing it across the board, we think maybe it’s human error or something like that. But what happens, Jack? What happens if Facebook closes out completely, if Pinterest, if Twitter, then they become religions?

In the end, we’re beyond anything. We don’t fit. We’re being heretics to some religion that we didn’t know we accepted. I was thinking about that a lot that vaccines, it’s a religion because it meets all of the same problems you have with the religion. The science is literally saying this. They all admitted, I told you that guy had debated in New Jersey. I said, “They have done no safety tests on a single childhood vaccine. I can prove it.” He’s like, “You don’t have to. I know they don’t because it’s unethical.” I was like, “You know the argument, it’s unethical to test its vaccine for safety.” I said, “Do you see the problem there? You do see the problem that this is a product made by pharma that lies to us all the time, kills tons of people and loses lawsuits all the time. They have a product that isn’t being tested for safety. Do you not see that that’s a religion?” That’s like don’t test our God. Not only do they not test for safety, they have complete liability from being sued. You add to that any single doctor or scientist that decides to do a study to say, “Let me look at safety. Let’s take some of this aluminum from these vaccines and put it in some mice, put it in some monkeys.”

As soon as you decide to do that as a scientist, you’re a heretic. It’s a witch trial. You are an anti-vaccine forever even questioning this product that’s never been through a safety study. To live in that environment, politics is disappearing. Those are religious beliefs because science stands up to scrutiny. Science invites scrutiny, except this science is not like free speech invite scrutiny. You’re allowed to challenge the things I’m saying. I’ve said over and over. I’ll talk to anybody. It’ll be a completely curious conversation. I don’t think you’re an evil person. I think you’re misguided. I have some questions on how you’re coming to the conclusions that you are. They want to shut me down. They don’t want to invite me to their desk. They don’t want anyone to see me talking to them because they know they can’t answer my questions and we’re shutting that down.

I was invited to a podcast. It was going to be a debate between me and David Katz of Yale School of Public Health. He’s supposedly a natural MD. Nobody told him the terms of how we were going to debate. He’s like, “There’s no debate here. I’m not even going to talk to somebody who’s got a different opinion because they’re wrong, so case closed.” Del, tell me what’s new with Del Bigtree and what’s the future hold? What’s going on with the high wire? Tell me a couple of things going on.

We had an amazing year. We won two lawsuits against the government. We won a lawsuit against Health and Human Services and against the National Institute of Health, both based on the 1986 Compensation Act that took liability away from industries. We demanded to see the minutes, the law mandated Health and Human Services is supposed to be meeting with Congress every two years to explain how they’re making vaccines safer. Since we took liability away because of vaccines were too dangerous and causing too many lawsuits, they never had a single meeting. That’s what we ended up getting them to admit to through the court systems. The same thing with the National Institute of Health. They were supposed to have formed a task force to make vaccines safer. That would have included the head of the NIH. He was supposed to be the head of the task force.

That was Francis Collins currently and the head of FDA and CDC all too because they recognize when they took liability in a way, this is a product that needs some help. Let’s get a task force on making a better product, not one meeting to the task force to ever have since 1986 so 30 years ago. Both of those things happen. That shows the types of things we’re doing. Next year, we’ve got about five or six lawsuits were lining up in the same direction. We’re slowly chiseling away at this foundation that is supposed to be a vaccine efficacy and safety that doesn’t exist. It’s not easy. You have to be very precise in our whole approach. Once we started Informed Consent Action Network was not to try and win some big case because it’s not out there, but to play into fractures in the foundation that exists and slowly bring this house of cards down.

This is America and this vaccine issue is destroying consent. Once you accept the destruction of consent, then the door is wide open. Click To Tweet

We’ve got some very exciting lawsuits coming. We also had put out an HHS notice. We laid out a 27-page document to the Health and Human Services, all the issues we think there are with vaccines and how it’s being handled, the corruption inside of HHS, the lack of safety science. A lot of people responded to us with about 60,000 pages of reference documents, of studies, to try and defend themselves. We have spent a whole year working through one question, one answer at a time with all the documents they’ve shared. I’m going to present our response to the HHS response. Jack, I can tell you they’ve got nothing, but we are about to present the most thorough beat down of this vaccine lie the world has ever seen. People get excited about that.

I’m going to start discussing getting into the background behind the plot in a deposition. If people aren’t aware of that, that’s online. It’s out there. This is the living father of vaccines in the world. He was supposed to be testifying in a court case where they’re trying to force vaccinate a woman’s child there. The number one vaccine guy, the guy that wrote most of the language probably was involved in coming up with the term herd immunity, wait until you see how he gets back from the corner. We’re going to discuss what the implications of that are. Those are some of the stories we’re following, legal issues we’ve got going on.

I’m not stopping and we’re growing, Jack. I’ve already been talking to donors. We’re looking to get more funding in because we’ve got to expand more media, more legal battles, and then science. We’re funding science. I think that large scale vacs versus unvac study needs to be done. We’re looking at the scientists could do it. Dr. Mawson did a small study like that last year that showed us many of the things we thought would be there, but the argument is it’s only 650 kids. We want a million kids. We’re looking to ways of doing that so it’s not going to stop and to keep working with guys like you. We’ll be here every single week on the High Wire every Thursday bringing the truth as we find it.

You are a total freedom fighter, a health fighter. We love you, Del. I’m so happy to know you and to call you my friend. I appreciate everything you do. Thanks for being on the Healthy Heart Show.

I appreciate what you do, Jack. Keep up the great work. Take care.

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About Del Matthew Bigtree

HHS 33 | VaccinesDel Bigtree is one of the preeminent voices of the vaccine risk awareness movement around the world. He is the founder of the non-profit, Informed Consent Action Network, and host of a rapidly growing internet talk show The HighWire, boasting over 33 million views to date. Del’s multi-pronged approach incorporates legal, legislative, and media actions to expose the fraud, lies, and conflicts of interest that have allowed the pharmaceutical industry to evade standardized safety testing for vaccines. This collusion between government agencies and the pharmaceutical industry, now the most powerful lobby in Washington, has led to a dramatic increase in vaccine injuries, estimated to be as high as 5.9 million cases per year in the US alone. Despite mainstream media sources such as the New York Times and Washington Post blame so-called “Anti-Vaxxers” for the growing trend of vaccine hesitancy, Del has focused the spotlight on the real issue – the shocking lack of credible vaccine science.

Del’s foray into the vaccine issue was anything but intentional. After spending a decade celebrating great doctors, cutting edge surgeries and medical breakthroughs as a producer on The Dr. Phil Show and the CBS medical talk show, The Doctors, it was a routine investigation into the story of a whistleblower at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) that catapulted Del into the vaccine debate. When every news agency in television, including The Doctors, refused to cover the story of Dr. William Thompson, a senior scientist at the CDC who had provided over 10,000 documents to support his claim that the agency had destroyed scientific evidence proving a connection between vaccines and autism, Del put his career on the line and left network television to make one of the most controversial documentaries in history: Vaxxed: From Cover-Up To Catastrophe. The film became a worldwide phenomenon when it was abruptly removed from the 2016 Tribeca Film Festival lineup under unprecedented pressure by the festival’s medical sponsor, The Sloan Foundation.

Del is now one of the most sought after public speakers in the natural health arena, often gathering audiences in the thousands who travel from around the world to be inspired by his unique blend of passion, wit, and scientific expertise. He has worked directly with the likes of Robert Kennedy Jr., Robert DeNiro, and Jenny McCarthy, and was an official member of the 2017 Kennedy Vaccine Safety Delegation at the National Institute of Health arranged by President Trump. He is the recipient of multiple awards including an Emmy Award as a producer on The Doctors, Best Drama at the New York Television Festival, and the Health Freedom Hero Award from the National Health Freedom Federation, the oldest natural health organization in America. He has appeared on several primetime news networks including ABC, NBC, CBS, and FOX and has been interviewed by countless radio and Internet personalities ranging from Tom Hartman to David Knight of Infowars. Above all, Del is most fulfilled by his work with the brave mothers and fathers of vaccine injured children who are marching on state capitols around the nation to stop Big Pharma’s push to forcibly inject every American citizen with vaccines, a product the Supreme Court has described as “unavoidably unsafe.”