HHS 42 | Metabolic Theory Of Cancer

 

A lot of people have given up hope in the medical industry due to ineffective and costly treatments, especially when it comes to cancer. That is why many people are now finding alternatives and have found new benefits through naturopathic and holistic approaches to fighting off this disease. In this episode, Dr. Wolfson is joined by naturopathic physician Dr. Donese Warden. They introduce and explain the metabolic theory of cancer and how new research into this disease is leading to new ways of treatment.

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Metabolic Theory Of Cancer with Dr. Donese Worden

I’ve got a great guest on. I’ve known her for years out in Arizona. She’s a pillar of the natural community out there. She’s well-known. You were one of the first graduates of the naturopathic school in Arizona, Southwest College of Naturopathic Medicine. I have Dr. Donese Worden. You’ve been all over the news media. You were part of the news media before you became a doctor. Tell me a little bit of your backstory and why you went to naturopathic medical school.

I’ve been practicing for several years, but I’m not one of the first graduates. I was in the news business and I’ve always been interested in health. My mom was a naturopath without knowing it. We were eating yogurt in the ‘60s. She was a forefront for me when I found out that there was something that would tie in traditional medicine and alternative medicine and would let me look at both. That’s when that made the decision for me to go to naturopathic medical school. In Arizona, I’m licensed to do traditional medicine so I can prescribe meds and do minor surgery. We do injections. We were this primary care doc over here, but we’re also licensed in clinical nutrition and botanical nutrition. We’re licensed in the herbs as well as the drugs, Chinese medicine, acupuncture, mind, body. That’s psychology. We have a counseling degree to us and clinical nutrition. There are other pieces, homeopathy. It allowed a big box to play out of. I had to go to Europe to learn a lot about what I practice in my medicine. I had to get out of school to learn what I know now.

You finished up with a four-year medical degree from Southwest College and like any of us. I did six years of additional training after my medical school training. The best doctors continue with that education. I know you are always on a quest to learn more. Arizona is a phenomenal state for natural health and wellness because we’ve got such a strong naturopathic community there. We’ve got a strong homeopathic community there. For those people around the country and around the world for that matter, if you’re looking for great resources and natural, come on out to Arizona.

It is a good state. I’ve enjoyed practicing here. I do have my license in Colorado and in the middle of getting a California as well because I travel so much to those places. With other things I’ve got going, I can drop in and see a few patients sometimes in those states.

I know you’ve got a thriving practice in Arizona. People from all over the world have seen you. They come out to Arizona. What’s the latest? I know you are an expert in many different fields, but maybe tell me where your focus has been.

Pain management is where I started, in natural pain management. That’s why I traveled to Europe to find these therapeutic injections. I still teach a lot. I train doctors in natural medicine for pain management and natural aesthetics. That’s all fine but I’ve gotten bored with it. I know how to do that piece. Cancer kept coming at me in the sense that one out of two people now is going to get cancer. My wonderful healthy patients didn’t see it coming. People that would come in from other parts of the world say, “I have cancer. I have heard of you. I want to know your thoughts.” Quickly, in the last several years, I’ve been going down that cancer research pathway where I always turn is to the researchers themselves. I don’t want to hear what everybody else thinks necessarily even within my own community.

HHS 42 | Metabolic Theory Of Cancer

Metabolic Theory Of Cancer: The metabolic theory of cancer is that it’s a metabolism problem inside the mitochondria.

 

I went directly to the researchers and established great relationships there. I have been a supporter of the Metabolic Theory of Cancer. Dr. Thomas Seyfried that wrote the book Cancer as a Metabolic Disease is now a dear friend, Dr. Dominic D’Agostino that’s funded by the Department of Defense, the medical schools and the colleges down in Florida. He’s amazing. I consider these my friends. Once a month we have a call between what I would consider the leaders or the heroes in metabolic cancer. I was listening to each one. I call them about a patient. “What about this?” Finally, I said, “You guys all need to talk on a consistent basis to drive the research faster and further forward.” That is me being the warden. It’s been great.

Pretend that I’m in sixth grade and you do the Metabolic Theory of Cancer. What does that mean?

The Theory of Cancer that we’ve gone down in traditional medicine is that it’s a genetic disease. We’ve gotten past that for the most part. We know that at most 5% to 10% of cancers are genetic in nature. We even considered that those might have a metabolic problem go wrong before the gene gets turned off or on as well. That being said, we’ve studied the wrong thing possibly and all the drugs are based on this. They are based on the wrong thought process from the beginning. This theory is that it’s a metabolism problem inside the mitochondria. That’s that little organelle, that’s the powerhouse of ATP everybody learned in basic biology. When that organ gets disrupted or becomes dysfunctional, we see that it looks like it may be the precursor to many different things, not just cancer, but neurobiological diseases, Parkinson’s, Alzheimer’s, autism, all the brain pathologies. When that organelle gets disrupted, it causes all kinds of habits. The other piece to the cancer piece is what’s one of the major disruptors of that mitochondria?

It’s sugar. We know that sugar feeds cancer. It’s its favorite fuel. It’s pretty much its only basic fuel. That’s what the ketogenic diet is about. Let’s cut out the carbs and the sugars and let’s not give that brain that fuel. One piece that needs to be discussed more is the glutamate pathway. There are two pathways that we can feed that cancer cell to get that glucose going. One is all the dietary stuff. The other one is the stress piece. There are other processes there, but it’s the stress piece. If we’re not addressing that, then we can still find sugar in the body. If you haven’t had it, you haven’t eaten it, it’s still there. Everything turns to sugar. If we are stressing out and we’re not addressing that piece, we’re still feeding the cancers. That’s a big piece that we need to pay more attention to. The Metabolic Theory is sugar feeds cancer, stress feeds cancer and those mitochondria get disrupted. That may be the biggest piece where we need to be studying and where my heroes in research study. They’re the cancer and brain pathologies, looking at the mitochondria and what’s happening there.

The Mitochondrial Theory of all disease and the mitochondria have their DNA. Those DNA can be damaged. There’s only one nuclear piece of DNA, but then there are thousands of DNA related to the mitochondria. The more damaged that gets over time, its inability to repair leads to further disease in the cardiovascular. The ATP production and cardiac function go hand-in-hand because there’s so much rapid turnover there. We can say, “We’re going ketogenic.” Keto is another form of Paleo. Paleo can be on the higher carb side. It can be more of the high-fat side which would get you more towards keto. What about someone who’s already diagnosed? You were talking about some great preventative stuff. I’m going to go on a diet. What are some of the new therapies? We’ve heard about high dose vitamin C. Maybe do me a favor, start me with high dose vitamin C. You mentioned Seyfried. Where do we go with high dose vitamin C? What’s the role there?

We know it’s all about timing and the vitamin C pathways and IDs during cancer have not been studied. We don’t have enough to do it, but the good news is Dominic D’Agostino and his research facility is studying that high dose vitamin C. We’re going to know soon. We’ll be able to tell. What we think it’s more about timing. Even the ketogenic diet and hyperbaric oxygen, these are mainstays within the therapies that we utilize with cancer patients. What we’re learning more about is it’s all about pressing and pushing these pathways in the right timing and different cancer therapies. If someone has decided to do traditional, then we’ve got to stop keto within a certain timeframe. There are a certain time and place for hyperbaric oxygen, but it’s not throw everything at everybody and hope something works. We’re getting better at the timing of these therapies.

One out of two people now is going to get cancer. Click To Tweet

The hyperbaric oxygen and the whole idea, you get inside of a chamber. You do it almost on a daily basis. They run the oxygen content up to 100%. They pressurize the chamber as well. I haven’t heard much of it applied though from a cancer standpoint. I’ve heard it in wound care. We’ve heard about it in chronic infections. How does this apply to cancer? Go from there. Tell me how this works.

If anyone likes science, google Dr. Dominic D’Agostino and all the research that he has done. He was funded by the Department of Defense to say, “How do we keep our warriors, our NASA, our astronauts, and our Navy SEALs healthier, faster, better, stronger? How do we protect their neurons when they’re diving?” All of these things. Through that research, he’s found apoptosis of cancer cells. All of a sudden, he got thrown as I did into this cancer world of not where he started. He still works with the Department of Defense. Hyperbaric oxygen, there are a lot of studies out there with cancer, both in rats and in some patients. There is data out there showing it and the protocol that I have my patients follow is Dominic’s. It’s certain when we do it. It depends on what other therapies we’re doing.

The timing has to be right. We have to get a certain protocol of five days on, two days off, five days on. We’ve got those 2.5 atmospheres. We’ve got it down to where we think at least having the basics of what we think are going to be the best way to help this patient. We’ve seen great benefits. If the patient is decided on chemo or radiation or they’re already in that, we say, “How do we help that patient?” This allows those to become more sensitive, which means they may work better and use less when you’ve got ketogenic and hyperbaric going. That’s the exciting part. Do I think that we’re going to get to the fact that we can use these as model therapies? That means we don’t need that other stuff. We will. We don’t have enough data to say it solidly, but the way it’s looking, the way the research is going and what we’re seeing in our patients, we’re going to be able to get around it. Dr. Thomas Seyfried says, “Hyperbaric and ketogenic replaces radiation.”

I’ve had the privilege to speak at The Truth About Cancer for the last couple of years when they’ve done the live events. Although I don’t have a lot of time to listen to the other speakers and I know when you speak and you travel, it’s the same thing. The other thing I got out of those two events, The Truth About Cancer, is almost there are a time and a place for surgery. Everybody agrees on that, but where people are coming from, they go, “Chemo and radiation and the vast majority of situations are worthless.” Why don’t we go down the route of what you’re talking about with some of these other alternatives? The other stuff doesn’t work anyway. We may as well try high dose vitamin C, hyperbaric. What do you think?

I know that certain leukemia, testicular cancer, lymphoma, chemo does work. It does and we’ve got to give credence where things are working. It’s toxic, but we’ll get them better after. There is a time and a place for all of this. It’s about the individual patient and is personalized in that medicine. Where’s their belief system? That’s a piece I work with. If they’re dead set on traditional, they’ve never heard about alternative, they want to see what can you do to help me go through the side effects and they’re too stressed out to hear the rest of it. You’ve got to take that patient where they’re at. That if they say, “I’ve had naturopaths come in with diagnosis and saying there is no way I’m doing chemo, radiation or surgery.” I said, “What type do you have?” They’re like, “I don’t know yet, but I’m not doing it.” I said, “You’re asking me for help and I’ve got to know more. Therefore, we need a good diagnosis.” Most of them opt for surgery. Some of them opt for something else even in the traditional world because they’re triple negative or two and they make a different decision. We can’t draw lines and most of us are on the line. Can we find natural therapies? Can we find ways to jumpstart the body’s own healing process? That’s always going to be the best. We can’t throw the baby out with the bath water. I’m not a big proponent. Everybody go get chemo and radiation and think we’re going to get past all that. I do.

One of my best friends from medical school, he’s a high profile guy. He’s the head of cancer at one of the prestigious East Coast institutions. I’ve got some great stories about him, but nonetheless, he certainly brags about chemotherapy for leukemia, lymphoma. I’m all with that. What I tell my patients and anybody else who reads is to go to the conventional side, get a diagnosis. I want to know statistics that if someone says, “You’re a stage three and with chemotherapy or radiation, we reduce your risk of dying. We take your five-year mortality. Without the therapy, you’d be at 20%. You’d be alive. If we take you to our therapies, you’re at 75%, 80%.” If somebody posed that to you and I, we would say, “We need the chemo and the radiation, but we don’t have data.” The data is like, “If you do this therapy, 90% chance you’ll be alive. If you don’t do it, it’s 82%.” In that scenario, I’d say, “I’m going to go with the natural route and I think we’ll do better.”

HHS 42 | Metabolic Theory Of Cancer

Metabolic Theory Of Cancer: Finding ways to jumpstart the body’s own healing process is always going to be the best.

 

It’s all about education. When patients call me from all over the world, they have their diagnosis. If they don’t have everything, I’m asking them to do their genetics, do all testing. When I have that in front of me, then we go over those statistics. The problem is when they talk to their oncologist, a lot of times their head’s in another place. They hear it, but not hearing it, certainly not understanding it. Sometimes when they say, “We can double your lifespan,” it may be in months, they’re talking months. Glioblastoma, if you double it, you’re talking a few months. Patients have to understand that and we have to speak to them that way and say now. We also have to say in a few years you may be clear of this cancer, but these other therapies may cause another cancer down the road and it may damage you. You may have neuropathy and all these things that somebody told them but they didn’t hear. It happens and their quality of life goes down. They’d say, “If I would have heard all of that or understood all of that, I might’ve made different choices.”

That’s the piece I’m writing a book and it’s about at that moment when you’re finding out you have that. What do you do? This is what I do with patients one-on-one, but I’d like to reach more people. It’s about giving yourself some time and what questions to ask. How do you ask it? What do you need to do? Not drive yourself crazy, but try to become some expert on the internet in two days and drive your doctors crazy. What are the basics? If you get a patient, calm down, first of all. Get them understanding that for every cancer there is a survivor and that could be them. You talk to them about their diet, their exercise, radical changes in those. About their mindset, get them calmed down. They make their decisions. They go into whatever therapies make sense with empowerment.

I believe that’s the best medicine because if they don’t believe in it, they go, “I’m doing it because everybody around me is telling me I need to do it. I hate it. I don’t understand it. My oncologist doesn’t even know my name and I hardly know theirs.” That’s not a good place to go into any life-threatening disease decisions. I’m all about getting them into that mindset, giving them information, education. Let’s make the decisions together and it’s not my decision. It’s not somebody on the internet’s decision. It’s the patient’s decision when I feel they’ve been informed.

Once again, the 1970s physician says, “It’s my way or the highway, this type of therapy, this is what it is. There’s nothing else we’re going to do.” Those days are gone and we do have the ability to become educated on the internet and at least ask the questions. You want to have a good guide. How does someone find a good guide? Arizona is like the Wild West and probably someone in California as well as far as the good guys, but there are a lot of people in Arizona promising a lot of different things. This is also expensive. You are coming to see my good buddy, Dr. Donese Worden. You want the best, you’re going to pay for the best. How do people know what they’re getting into?

I’ve got a problem with a lot of the claims that are being made even by my own colleagues. We don’t know what vitamin C does in cancer yet. We suspect it might be good, but the real research is being done as we speak. We’re going to know soon enough, but to take a patient and run them through high doses of multiple IV is expensive and all. I’ve done vitamin C IVs on patients and it’s been hell for lung cancer patients. That was in the days when I didn’t know that you have to time this exactly right or you could be causing more damage. In other words, you could be supporting the cancer DNA cells, those stem cells to survive the other therapies they’re doing. Now vitamin C’s working against us. I had backed up. I don’t do a lot of therapies. I do things that I know can be helpful for that particular cancer, I’ll recommend it.

A lot of times I’ll say, “Here’s hyperbaric, here’s where you live. Here’s a person. Look into the ketogenic diet because I’m a big proponent of that. Do hyperbaric as we’re learning more.” It doesn’t have to be that expensive. I also don’t want our patients or anyone that is in that state that’s had a chronic degenerative disease diagnosis, whether it’s cancer, Alzheimer’s, Parkinson’s or whatever it is to be in a state of fear or panic. That too is some of the worst things that we can do to the body. We’ve got to be careful of saying, “I’ve got the cure and I’ve got this.”

Cancer’s favorite and basic fuel is sugar. That's what the ketogenic diet is about. Click To Tweet

Show me the statistics. To be honest, when I ask a lot of the clinics, I said, “In my book, if you want traditional medicine, here are the institutions that have the best track record. This is how you find that.” In the alternative world, I worked hard to try to find those clinics that could give me the data to back up what they were saying. It’s still sorely lacking. I know which therapies I believe in and I guide patients toward the therapies, not necessarily a particular clinic. There are clinics doing good work. Don’t get me wrong. I know I’m going to get backlash about this, but I always speak my truth. Honestly, if we’re doing that good in those clinics, why aren’t you collecting the data or showing me real data?

I get it. You have all kinds of different therapies so you can’t play it out, but you can tell me what the stage four breast cancer that how many survived to the five-year mark with whatever you’re doing. Give me that and I can’t get that. That’s a problem. There’s a great group Pam Bard and I founded. It’s brand new, a foundation where she has the connections to find the monies and have the monies to be able to do it where we’re going to start funding. With these clinics and these techniques and these therapies, everybody says, “Here’s CBD. Here’s what it does.”

We need more research because we can’t give that data until we do the research. We’ll be funding integrative and metabolic therapies that have a scientific rationale, that have Dominic D’Agostino, Dr. Rowe, all these heroes and research there in the lab. We know what they see with the mice. We have patients that have done this. We know what we’re seeing. It’s time to fund the research because if we wait for NIH, if we wait for all of that it is going to be several years down the line and we’ve lost people we didn’t need to lose.

I certainly share your enthusiasm and that’s part of the problem. It’s been a lack of funding, a lack of time. A lot of these natural doctors, including myself, we didn’t want to go down the research route because it was never interesting to us. When people come to see me and they say, “Okay,” I give them the facts. I said, “If you don’t take a statin drug, your risk is here. If you take a statin drug, your risk is here.” I believe in my office, as my patient, your risk will be here down towards zero, but I don’t have the data to show it. I’ve got to collect the data. I come from the school of common sense and that if we remove the cause, we’re going to get great results. Someone threw $50,000 at me and said, “Let’s comb through all your charts. Let’s see what people did.” Someone else is going to have to come up with the money to do that because I’m not going to fund that.

That’s what our foundation is about, finding the doctors that are doing the good work. We say, “They are getting good results. We are getting results. Let’s start funding and looking at that.” We’re also going to be finding the researchers, even at the institutional level. UCLA, I’m with them at the Metabolic Health Summit and they’re sitting there talking. There are major institutions. They can get grant monies, NIH, but they have to wait. That whole pathway they have to go through and they’re saying, “If we had some money, do you know what we could do?” I love the research. I’m the nerdy one that likes to read all that stuff. That’s a big passion of mine. Why we created this foundation is to start supporting not individual clinics. All the way to the national levels, these major researchers with labs and DNA technology so we can vet it out. Even they are saying, “Our hands are tied. We don’t have the funding.” We want to get past that and quit waiting long to bring these good therapies to patients.

One thing looks good and it may not have as much data as we want, but it looks promising and there’s no harm like the ketogenic diet, like hyperbaric. There’s enough scientific rationale there. I recommend it. It’s going to prove out and we’re going to have a lot more. There are 50 studies now. Well-funded, large institution study the ketogenic diet as we speak. That’s enough for me to say. I’ve seen it in my patients when their tumor shrinks. They go to Italy, they start eating a bunch of carbs, drinking and the tumor grows back out. They come back, they get on ketogenic, and it shrinks again. I know what I see. I’m excited about this ability to be able to fund research into the more integrative natural thought processes, not pharmaceutical drugs.

HHS 42 | Metabolic Theory Of Cancer

Metabolic Theory Of Cancer: It’s time to fund the research because if we wait for NIH, it is going to be ten years down the line and we’ve lost people we didn’t need to lose.

 

You are such a fighter for truth, for health and wellness. Your energy is phenomenal for sure. You’re big on liver health and without a well-functioning liver, you can’t clear the toxins from the body. You can’t detoxify. You can’t dump it into your gut. Tell me the importance of liver health and then how does someone achieve that?

That was a stumble on. That was me having a FibroScan, which is a device that looks at fatty and it gives me a quantified number. I know how many cells are fatty in the liver. Is it stiff, which is fibrosis and is it cirrhotic? The national epidemic that no one’s talking about, even though everybody’s saying it’s a national epidemic, CDC knows it, is fatty liver and fibrosis. The reason why we do not hear about it is there’s not a drug out there for it. We do not hear about it. I have this device for a few months to do some studies and I studied a ketogenic diet with it. I looked at metformin, which brings down blood sugar levels and I looked at it. These are all individual arms.

I looked at this homeopathic injection app in Germany. It’s called Hepar and it was for liver health. I was using these injections for pain management, anti-inflammatory, great effect. We have this liver, gallbladder injections sitting over there. Everybody was saying, “What are we going to use that?” I used it with gallstones and gall sludge and it helps that. I got this device and I started every patient that came in and said, “You want to look at your liver?” Me too. Young, healthy eighteen-year-olds who have never drunk in their life, eating organic, doing it right have fatty liver. The statistics say 20% to 35% of the population, that’s wrong. I ran over 100 patients through and more than 50% had either fatty or stiff liver. It shocked me. I started doing these therapies and this injection, I did one shot and I had them come back the next week.

I looked at them for six weeks every week in a row to see what was happening. I have patients and I’ve got the data to show it. This is quantifiable. This device is one of the ones being used by the pharmaceutical is trying to develop drugs. It’s used at Mayo Clinic. We can’t debate the validity of this device that I used. I did this injection. They came back the next week and they could have been a level three fatty liver person who had cirrhosis, not fibrosis. In one week, it went back down to normal. I said, “We’ve done something wrong with this game.” It can’t happen in a week. I know the liver regenerates fast, but this can’t be. We got the company involved. We looked at the scans and lo and beheld, they were real.

I continued for a few months. I have a case, an autoimmune hepatitis patient that’s autoimmune to her own liver, on the transplant list and she’s in normal functions. The first liver were enzymes back down in normal range for the first time in several years. All I know is this is working. If you ask me the mechanism action, I’m going to say I have no idea. I know it’s homeopathic. I know it doesn’t have contraindications, no side effects. It’s okay if you’re on other drugs. That’s what I know now. That’s one I want to find because that’s not supposed to happen that fast and it did. I’m super excited about that.

The device, it’s called a FibroScan.

Even if you haven't had sugar, it's still there. Everything turns to sugar. Click To Tweet

FibroScan is the device. It’s quite costly. I no longer have that in my clinic. I wish I could and maybe we start funding some of this, I’ll get one back in. The company let me have it there to see how well it was going to work in an integrated space. What you would have to charge, how long it takes, all that stuff. Does it make sense or does it only make sense in the research world, at Mayo Clinic and MD Anderson? Larger clinics could probably do it, afford it and make it. I’ve got a GI doc, a big clinic. They’ve got one. I send my patients over there. It’s inexpensive, get it done and then we do our little magic. Ketogenic was slower than the injections, but it was helpful.

I didn’t see a difference with the metformin. We used a topical so it would bypass the liver and that was probably the issue. It may be helpful if they take it orally, but I don’t like it for a lot of other reasons. The good news, the bad news is the pharmaceuticals are working on a new med and I happen to know the inside on it a little bit. Those statistics don’t even come close to what I came with this homeopathic injection. Guess how much it’s estimated going to be? $100,000. If it cures your liver disease, a few people may owe insurance. We’ve got something natural that seems to be working well.

To me, the answer is yes. There is plenty of research out there on the use of berberine or non-alcoholic fatty liver disease. Whenever someone mentions metformin, I always think that berberine is a better, safer and more complete option. Anything you want to comment about berberine?

Berberine is good. We’ve got to be careful. You can get to toxic levels. If they do have a compromised liver, berberine can cause some bad effects. They need to be supervised if they’re going to go high enough level. I did not use that in my arm to look at. I use it for other reasons as well. I can’t comment on what I think about that. I do like berberine, but we’ve got to be careful when you have a compromised liver. The other thing about metformin, I’m the person trying to find any and all things besides a drug, but that being said, remember how sugar feeds cancer. If somebody is stressing, they’re diabetic, we’re doing the diet and they’re still dumping out that sugar, I’m not against metformin in that instance. Travis Christofferson wrote the book Tripping Over The Truth. He’s partnered with a group called Care Oncology out of the UK. Are you familiar with what that group stopped going?

I’m not but I will say back to berberine, there are 800 studies on those cancers.

There are mouse studies, but not as big as we want to be. That’s another one looking promising. It may be because of the liver and the blood sugar issue. It’s working on the metabolic pathways. This group out of the UK was funded by the English government by the UK, and it’s for repurposing drugs. This is for Glioblastoma, which is the fastest growing, most aggressive cancer that we’ve got. They said, “We can make a change in that. We’re doing something. One of those is metformin.” That’s that metabolic pathway. They’ve got an antifungal, anti-parasitic type. They’ve got an antibiotic for all the things that we know that screws up all microbiome and all this. They’re trying to kill and destroy. The fourth one is a statin drug.

HHS 42 | Metabolic Theory Of Cancer

Metabolic Theory Of Cancer: Sugar feeds cancer. If somebody who is a diabetic is stressing and we’re doing the diet, they’re still dumping out that sugar.

 

It’s not because of the way that our cardiologists, except for you, say, “You have to be on a statin for cardiovascular.” No. When it first came out, it was shown to be anti-tumorigenic. It should’ve always been, if anything, an anti-cancer drug and not a cardiovascular drug. They believe it’s the anti-inflammatory effect of it and that it does have anti-tumorigenic. Those four drugs are increasing the lifespan of Glioblastoma patients. This is where we go into what we talked about before. We’re talking months, but it’s doubling their lifespan. If they’re on to something, and I talked to them, I said, “Can’t we do a natural way to kill off the parasites and get the microbiome and natural anti-inflammatory?

I believe that we can. The study parameters that they’re doing are exciting. They opened a clinic beside Cedars Sinai. He’s got some Cedars Sinai docs who are willing to work with them on this protocol. They’re going forward. We can’t say everybody in the traditional world is against us. They’re not. They’re willing to work with this. I work with cancer doctors at MD Anderson here and go over to Arizona and we refer back and forth. We’ve got some studies, one on cold laser coming up that I’m excited about. The researchers and the doctors, some are open to what else we can have. Those that have closed minds, I don’t have time to fool with them. I’m not going to give them the stacks of research and those 800 studies you’re talking about because they’re not going to read it and they say, “That stuff’s bunked and it’s not research.” Even when you give them the research, they don’t have time. I quit that years ago. There’s plenty of room to think about it.

You mentioned cold laser. You have used it for pain for years and years. It was effective and FDA-approved for pain. I thought cancer was a contrary indication. It’s not absolute. It’s relative.

It’s about timing. Do I want an antioxidant? When do I want those pathways opened up? Do I want a bunch of ATP and energy going to the cancer cells? It’s about timing. The study we want to do is in conjunction with radiation, radiation oncologist that wants to do it with me because those patients that are going through high dose radiation, they’re getting burnt. She has seen that when I am concomitantly doing cold laser, they’re not getting the burns. Does that mean it’s decreasing the effect? That’s a legitimate question and I don’t know yet, but I also know that those radiation burns are also highly detrimental to the patient. We’ll be studying that. We don’t know the timing on that yet, but any oxidative or antioxidant status of anything we’re getting close. It’s Dominic D’Agostino and Seyfried’s research. We know we don’t do an antioxidant in the middle of this or in the middle of that or it needs to be a week before. We have a lot of good protocols now that we can at least have a scientific rationale when to do something and when not. We’re going to get better, but we’re getting close. I’m careful when I do cold laser on patients.

Dr. Donese Worden, you’re absolutely brilliant. You’re a breath of fresh air. You are doing your research. I know that you talk the talk and you walk the walk as well and that always helps. Some of my old buddy cardiologists that are 7,500 pounds overweight, no one ever listened to those people.

I want to say is that I look back and you and I lectured together on cardiovascular health. Do you remember that years ago? In 2007, we were lecturing together. You were talking about Paleo and they were saying, “Who’s this cardiologist talking about diets? They had the naturopath talking about the science over here. They thought it would have been flipped.” We both believe in both. It was before that you and I had a relationship to say you’re walking the walk as well.

Tell everybody where we can find you going forward.

I have a website, DrWorden.com and the office number is (480) 588-2233. I can do resource consultations if they can’t be patients and at least help guide them through diagnosis.

You cover all bases. My father said me these years ago, “The easiest, the best, the cheapest thing and the most effective thing is to get someone’s opinion.” Call Dr. Donese if you’ve got a cancer issue and listen. Pick her brain. You’ll at least get that opinion. It’s all about being the informed patient and make an educated decision. Don’t sit back and trust your doctor. As we all know, they may not have truly your best interest. Unfortunately, it is financially driven, it’s driven by societies, governing bodies, and they restrict what a doctor can do. Stay in your lane, make your money, stay with the guidelines and unfortunately, it’s the patients that sometimes suffer. DrWorden.com, go check her out. I know she’s got plenty more things in the future. Thank you, Dr. Donese Worden.

Thank you for your work. I appreciate you.

This is another episode of the show. We will see you next time.

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About Dr. Donese Worden

HHS 42 | Metabolic Theory Of CancerDr. Donese Worden is a Naturopathic Medical Doctor, an expert diagnostician, a global health educator whose training in both conventional and alternative medicine affords her the privilege of providing each of her patients with a specific treatment plan that addresses not just the symptoms but the whole person to get to the root of the problem.

An Arizona-based clinician with offices in Scottsdale and Gilbert, Dr. Worden is consistently lauded for her exceptional intelligence, experience, compassion, cutting-edge research and superior quality of care.