HHS 44 | Raw Milk


Highlighting the values of ancient wisdom that many seem to have forgotten now, we look back to basics and talk about the benefits we could get from some food in raw form, particularly that of raw milk. In this episode, Dr. Jack Wolfson interviews Mark McAfee, CEO of Organic Pastures Dairy Company LLC. Together, they go through the history and truths of consuming raw milk, understanding how it has evolved throughout the years as well as the advantages it brings to our health. As you listen to this episode, start laying down the foundations of health through solid wholefood nutrition, move quickly back to the prevention of diseases, and embrace the bio-diversity of gut bacteria.

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Raw Milk with Mark McAfee

I’ve got an excellent guest you’re going to love. His name is Mark McAfee. I met Mark at a conference in the Nutritional Therapy Association and Mark and I gravitated together because the topic was raw milk and raw dairy. Mark is with the Raw Milk Institute and he is the CEO and Founder of Organic Pastures which does a lot of raw dairy products as well. Mark, thanks for being on the show.

It’s my pleasure.

I am the Paleo cardiologist and dairy is not Paleo. Mark, you’re a farmer, you’re a rancher. As you know, if you try to go after a pregnant animal to try and milk it, that animal will kill you. They’ll kick you in the face, they’ll stomp on you because they’re feeding their young, their milk is for theirs. What the message here is that if you’re going to do dairy and most of you are, then do it in the raw. Isn’t that the best way?

Doctors, nutritionists, nurses around the world universally all promote breastfeeding for children as their first food of life to build that immune system, build the biome in the gut that mostly didn’t exist before in utero. It’s got elements in it that only can bring you value and benefit in raw form. When you pasteurize, you get all the problems. When you breastfeed your child, that’s fantastic to start life out that way. When you go from breastfeeding at six or eight months or a year or a year-and-a-half whatever you can do, raw milk would be the next step. It would be cow’s milk, sheep milk, goat milk or camel milk. Around the world it’s always been raw milk because it continues to build that gut biome. Pasteurized milks don’t do.

Give me a little history lesson if you can. Let’s try and talk through this. Humans have been domesticating animals for let’s say 10,000 years. Over that time, the vast majority were milking the animal and drinking the milk in the raw. What happened? How did all this change and why?

In the late 1800s, you saw cows being brought into the cities because we were immigrating to the cities. They were leaving the countryside and concentrating the civilization in cities. Throughout the 1800s, these cows being brought in the cities no longer have pastures to appreciate, enjoy and consume. They’re fed distiller’s grains which cows had never consumed before. That’s not what they eat. The filth of the water, if you can imagine the stench in New York, Boston, Chicago, England, even Moscow where you had these cows and you didn’t have any clean water. You have no flushing toilets. Typhoid, tuberculosis, brucellosis, you name it, it’s what’s going on with unclean concentric conditions. On top of that, you had no way to chill the milk. There are all complicating factors here when you brought cows from their natural environment which is a sun-drenched green pasture with fresh water in the countryside into a downtown city environment. That was what triggered an absolute disaster when it comes to raw milk because of 40% to 50% of the people who drank that milk died. It was disgusting.

It was called the milk problem. In 1893, Dr. Coit and Straus, Straus went one way by bringing in the pasteurizer from Europe which was not used for pasteurizing milk. It was used to pasteurize beer and wine because if you have bacteria, it competes with yeast and yeast and sugar make alcohol. You wanted to get the bacteria out of there. They were cooking it, adding the sugar and the yeast, then you have yourself alcohol. We use that same technology in cooking milk. They call it parboiling. At the same time, you had Dr. Coit who started the American Association of Medical Milk Commission. The AAMMC was board certified physicians would go and visit farms and assure that they had a high standard of milk that was going to be clean from cows on pastures and clean water and all those things. They would look at the bacteria. That happened all in 1893 when we saw this bifurcation of milk intended for pasteurization and milk intended for human consumption.

From then, it’s been a battle ever since because there’s been a jealousy and market competition. It’s always been more expensive and harder to do raw milk for human consumption versus raw milk that gets cooked. It’s coming full head now with this re-emergence of this renaissance people saying, “I don’t want that pasteurized stuff that’s been ultra-filtered, ultra-pasteurized and homogenized. They added in things that you don’t even know about. It’s allogeneic. It’s the number one most allogeneic food in America.” They’re saying, “I want my milk from nature’s model.” It’s 10,000 to 50,000 years old. It’s always been a fantastic competitive advantage for me to being on earth. Not all human beings consume raw milk but a lot of them did. That’s where we are now. We’re in a renaissance resurgence of raw milk interest because it’s natural and incredibly good for the gut biome.

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Both you and I are fans of the original work of Weston A. Price. Weston A. Price was this dentist from the 1920s and for anyone who’s listening, it’s a phenomenal book, Nutrition and Physical Degeneration where he travels around the world by boats. He sees a lot of these Paleo people, Paleo cultures and a lot of them were enjoying dairy. Every single one of it that was doing dairy was doing it in the raw. You make some great point is that when you take an animal and you put it in an unhealthy environment like a big city environment, they’re not getting sunshine. They’re not getting free range. It’s a stressed-out lifestyle and then being fed unnatural food, us humans will get sick in that environment. We will get sick and die from typhoid, salmonella or measles in that sickly population. When you get a healthy free-range kid or a healthy free-range goat or healthy free-range cow, you’re going to produce healthy things.

You add into that what we’ve done to our modern populations. As you know well as a physician, lots of antibiotics are being used and all kinds of additional generations of antibiotics because the first ones aren’t working anymore. The second and third aren’t working. We’re in the fourth generation antibiotics. As a result, antibiotic resistance is causing a problem for the gut biome. The leaky gut syndrome is prevalent because of the preservatives in our food plus all the other toxins that screw up our gut biome which is a living super community of bacteria that’s eating on whole foods. Whole foods, not partial foods. Not foods from 7-Eleven store or the Wawa, whatever you call it back East. The bottom line is it was whole food nutrition that nourished the colonies of bacteria in that diversity which build our biome and supported our immunity.

That’s what our consumers or our customers are struggling to get back to is a strong immune system based on the gut biome and raw milk, raw dairy products and all the other wonderful foods you find in a farmer’s market. Those primitive foods come directly from the soil. Those are the wonderful vegetables and nutrients that we need to nourish our gut biome. I’m a whole foods guy and we’ve got a lot of primal guys and there’s some keto but that’s a little different avenue. Certainly once you go along with Paleo, that is into the original thing. 5,000, 10,000, 15,000, even 100,000 years ago, we thrived on that as human beings. That gave us that competitive advantage and the environment was great and hospitable. Anybody who ever watches Naked and Afraid, you know how tough it is out there without having some whole food nutrition. Raw milk was an interesting way to have food to eat immediately. Old raw milk was called cheese. It was a wonderful way to have whole food so your family didn’t starve.

I do love that show Naked and Afraid, the TV show Survivor and I use that to show what our Paleolithic ancestors would look like. They would probably be better than the show Naked and Afraid because Naked and Afraid drops you off in the middle of nowhere as opposed to our ancestors that lived a hostile environment and lifestyle. At least it was a place where they had been able to pass down generations of information. Probably it wasn’t quite as bad but those are the foods people will consume. They were hunter-gatherers, they were eating from the water, they were trying to kill animals, they were eating insects and they were eating any vegetation they could find. For those people that are out there and they’re a vegan crowd and you and I aren’t necessarily friends with them. You can tell from those TV shows that they are not looking for vegan food. They are looking for animals and they are dying for it literally.

You made an interesting point there that the ancient wisdom handed down from your parents or grandparents is missing when you go on the Naked and Afraid show. You’re basically scrambling to try to make a fire or something. You would have had some primitive things handed down from the previous generation. It would have the help you do much better than where they are just dropped off in the middle of nowhere and getting eaten by insects. It is interesting that we’re missing a lot of ancient wisdom. We’ve broken off from that somehow in the last 100 years and previous years. We don’t have an understanding of fermented vegetables. We don’t get that. We buy the stuff off the shelf which may have preservatives versus lack of fermentation. We don’t appreciate foods in the raw. We’ve been acculturated to believe that raw is bad. It’s missing something. It’s a road kill. Instead of it’s the primitive form, it’s the primary form. It’s the form that we’ve always thrived on. You could cook it if you want but the bottom line is it was the natural form instead of some highly processed form which we know now.

That’s why I’m talking with you, Mark McAfee of the Raw Milk Institute and Organic Pastures raw dairy because you’ve got the ancient wisdom. I’m a Chicago guy from the north suburbs of Chicago. My father was a cardiologist. I know nothing about farming or ranching or anything about nature whatsoever. I’m trying to learn but I learned from experts like you. I don’t want to sound condescending. The information you’ve given so far, if people would read that, that is more preventive information for health and wellness than any other cardiologist knows that I’ve ever worked with. The information they’re getting from you is tremendous right now. Thank you, Mark.

Thank you. I hang out with some people that are smart. The International Milk Genomics at UC Davis, they love breast milk. They tear it apart to figure out what’s in it to understand and appreciate the science behind what drives our immune system. UCLA has a cancer researcher into yogurts and raw milk in terms of understanding stem cell differentiation. They’re smart people and they’re all driving backward. You have to have food first with the gut and then you have to need a biodiversity of the lots of different bacteria and that will drive inflammation to go down in your body. We need inflammation but it needs to spike once in a while to go after things but then it needs to be a low level of inflammation and not a high level of inflammation. What we’re doing in America is driving inflammation like crazy all the time. That’s driving the whole complex chronic disease process that you and I know well. I was a paramedic for several years. I ran about 15,000 paramedic calls.

I was a healthcare educator for the health department. I taught paramedic medicine. There was never a paramedic call that I wasn’t on for chronic disease process, chest pain, shortness of breath, diabetes or whatever it might be, where there wasn’t some kind of FDA approved pile of pharmaceutical medications next to their bed or sitting next to them. They reported, “I take all this polypharmacy sitting next to me. Never in that house was there any good food. That is stuck in my mind and I thank God that I have the ability in my second generation of life. My first chapter was acute intervention and people trying to die and now we’re saying, “Hold the show.” Like your wife said, “Come with me. Let’s start preventing poor nutrition.” It’s all about nutrition and always has been all about nutrition. For some weird reason, we’d been derailed for the last 60 to 80 years on popping a pill. We have to start laying down the foundations of health through nutrition, solid whole food nutrition and then embrace biodiversity of gut bacteria. Through that we can address the chronic inflammation of disease processes as a basic intervention.

HHS 44 | Raw Milk

Raw Milk: We’re going to renaissance resurgence of raw milk interest because it’s natural and incredibly good for the gut biome.


Mark is wearing a hat. It’s Farmers Over Pharmacies. It’s a beautiful logo you got as well.

We took my old paramedic logo, the star of life and blue, and we made it this beautiful star of life in green and put Farmers Over Pharmacies over it. This is not doctor bashing. We need acute care interventionists, but that’s 10% of the deal, maybe 20%. We need to be preventing so we can afford medical care. The way we’re going now it’s insane. We can’t afford what we’re doing. 20% of our GNP was 6% of our GNP back in 1962. We’re going the wrong way quickly. We need to redirect quickly back to the prevention of disease to maintain our civilization status as healthy on this earth or we’re going to be in trouble.

Does the country have enough real estate? Do we have enough ranches to make raw milk available to the masses? When you have such high-quality raw dairy and you price it as such, you want to make it as affordable to everybody. We do but there is extreme cost compared to the average. As more people do it, it will come down but there is a cost associated with it. We should understand to cherish every little drop. As they say, human breast milk, moms will tell you that’s liquid gold. The stuff that’s coming from your animal is liquid gold. We need to cherish that and not guzzle down gallons of milk at a time. Savor every bit and cherish every bit of it. Is this available to the masses in the United States?

It’s stated by the state at this point. California has legal raw milk, has always had legal raw milk but it’s strictly monitored. It’s tough to do.

Is it possible? There are politicians that are on the side of raw milk. There are people that are on the side of real health and wellness as you and I. If we can get legislation passed, how can we make this available and affordable to everybody? Is this possible?

I believe yes, that’s true. It’s a renaissance back to the earth and the soil. It’s embracing the soil. It’s bringing true value back to the farm instead of a cable operation which is exploiting the animals, the water, the air and everything else. It will be back to the pasture and we need that pasture badly because it’s part of carbon sequestration. You look at climate change. Carbon sequestration and treating our soils is a critical thing. In 1969, your Ford truck costs you $3,900 if you wanted to go buy a Ford pickup. Milk costs you $9 to $10 a hundredweight to the farmer. That’s what the farmer got. About $0.90 or $1 a gallon or so. Right now the farmer is getting $1.30 a gallon and the truck costs him $53,000. There’s something wrong about the cheapness of milk and where it is and where it should be.

Our dairy products, we’re more expensive, no question but I tell you we’re half the price of a conventional, all-natural brand being sold in California. There is an economy of scale when you do 500 acres of pasture, 500 of cows and you do things a little larger but you’re still completely in lockstep and working with Mother Nature. You can bring the prices down a little bit to where it is more affordable. A lot of people are spending a lot of money on Starbucks, $3, $4 or $5 on Starbucks, no big deal. When you look at a half-a-gallon for $8 of milk and you look at a gallon of milk for $16, I know that when people are treating their Crohn’s disease or treating their asthma or allergies and getting complete recovery in months, eating a whole food diet and using raw milk kefir is priceless. A plastic bag of a colostomy bag, it’s priceless. The choice between raw milk kefir and bone broth and a colostomy with Crohn’s is priceless.

We have undervalued our food in a quantum way in terms of food being valuable and what we call food is phony. It’s highly processed garbage, has long shelf-life. Your gut is going to the shelf. Your gut is a living biome. It needs to be nourished with whole food nutrition. It should break down quickly and easily in our body. It is not to sit on a shelf forever. It could be preserved or sell it next year. We have to re-educate ourselves and the work you’re doing, the work I’m doing and reach out to consumers to say, “Wake up. That food is not expensive. That’s a lifeline compared to where you might be going fairly rapidly if you leave all with this chronic disease process which is already engaged in with.” Autoimmune problems, asthma, allergies and inflammation went crazy. Nutrition is where it’s at. Whole food nutrition is the center of where it’s at.

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You’re passionate about all this stuff. I still applaud that because I share that same passion as well. When people talk about they can’t afford it and stuff like that, you’re right. I’m not talking about any individual person out there, please don’t take offense. Stop drinking the Starbucks Frappuccino, a latte for $8 a glass. Stop getting your hair done. Stop getting your nails done. Stop getting your vacations. Sell the Ford truck for $53,000 and get a used truck for $25,000. Don’t skimp on the food. When you’re talking about a pasture-raised egg, you’re talking about this amazing hen that is free range, has access to pasture, eating bugs and shoots and sprouts. A bird will eat anything. A chicken will eat anything when it’s out there in nature. Why would an egg not cost a dollar an egg? This is a cocoon for a baby chicken that is loaded with all the vitamins, minerals, fats and proteins that a chicken needs to come to life. How can you get quality food for $2 a dozen? You can’t. People need to wake up to this fact to spend the money on your health or you’re going to spend it on your sickness.

We’ve been blessed by having some excellent modern technologies because as an organic farmer, we embrace biodiversity and try to get as much biodiversity as possible. That gives you the balance and the resilience of the soil and the animals. Biodiversity is a strengthened immune system but in the biodiversity, you can also have a pathogen. The pathogens, if you have enough load of them and you have a susceptible host, that could be a marriage made in hell. You could get somebody sick. We want to embrace biodiversity, but we also have modern technologies now that the newest feed called BAX PCR. We get data back in eleven hours. We have a new one now. It could give you on-farm pathogen detection data in raw milk in 30 minutes without doing pathogen enrichment which makes it a non-biohazard.

There’s an evolution in terms of rapid, inexpensive and accurate pathogen testing to be done on-farm to allow consumers not to worry about a bad bug coming in their way and they get all the good bugs coming instead of identifying E. coli or salmonella or something. They could have all the other the good bacteria without having that bad bacteria as a matter of whole-genome sequencing. There are great technologies that we can marry with Mother Nature at our situation we are with our depressed immune systems which are welcome now to that bugs, especially with the antibiotic abuses that have been prevalent. We could have an effective immune treating biome-building food replacing all the wonderful natural elements without having that bug that may or may not be there and certainly is rarely there but could be there to make somebody sick. Great technologies are happening also.

It’s good to know that there are some protective measures. Need I necessarily worry about that? If I know my farm and I know my farmer, I listen to you and I feel the passion. I know that you guys are doing all the testing and stuff like that in the backend. Yet as your company gets bigger and bigger and there are more and more farms under your umbrella, you probably need that quality assurance to make sure the brand stands over and above. Certainly, we do not hear anything as far as any mass outbreaks. Maybe something comes across the news wire once or twice a year but something happens with raw milk. What’s the reality here?

The last news came out of Ontario, Canada, with pasteurized milk. There’s chocolate milk post-pasteurization contamination with fair amounts of algae is a killer. The last nine people to have died from milk in the United States have all been post-pasteurization contamination from toxicity. It takes you out. It’s not good. You don’t find it in raw milk and if you do, it doesn’t grow because there’s competitive background flora that keeps it in check. In pasteurized milk it is killer. We don’t see the outbreaks. The training of farmers you have two kinds of raw milk in America, raw milk for pasteurization and raw milk for people. They are different food products. You treat them differently. You don’t just throw the machines on and have every bunch of manure will go into the machine and who cares. You care about the environment, nutrition, healthier the cow and you want to get trained. You want to chill them up quickly and you want to do testing. Maybe not every day but you’re testing on occasion. Do you know what you’re doing?

When you do that, you can build the immune system to people. If you do get occasional bad bacteria, you don’t even know it because you’ve got a strong immune system. Bad bacteria weaken the immune system. What we’re doing in raw milk is building the immune system so that bad bacteria come along whether it be from raw milk or wherever it comes from because it’s everywhere out there with the antibiotic resistance. You’re going to have a much better chance at not even knowing that it happened because you have a strong immune system or it affects you lightly or slightly. It’s a different concept in the preventative medicine area to embrace whole foods as mentioned. Occasionally maybe even a bad bug out there because that will give you an immune system exercise so you don’t get sick from loads of them later.

As much as in my book, The Paleo Cardiologist: The Natural Way to Heart Health, I said in there, “Dairy is not Paleo but if you’re going to do it, do it in the raw.” I said that because when you look in the literature, even on conventional garbage milk, some of the data even on the conventional stuff looks beneficial. When you’re doing it in the raw, you get all of those health benefits. Raw dairy or dairy in general can raise HDL, can lower markers of inflammation. A lot of people that have a dairy sensitivity, it could be from the lactose, it could be from the protein likely because they have leaky gut. If you do raw dairy amongst other things, you’re helping to seal the leaky gut. Those proteins do not get into the body. You have more stomach acid to help digest those proteins. On your advertisement it says, “Lactose intolerant friendly.” Is that because the lactase enzyme is still in the raw milk?

HHS 44 | Raw Milk

The Paleo Cardiologist: The Natural Way to Heart Health

There are different enzymes found in raw milk. Lactase enzyme is knocked down in raw milk. It’s found because when you break raw milk, you have lactobacillus bacteria and other bacteria that is lactase creating. You consume raw milk. When it gets to your gut, those bacteria explode in their growth and they create lactase for you like in a baby’s gut. The baby’s gut doesn’t make lactase, but the bacteria found in the raw milk do so it colonizes the intestines. Therefore when lactose does come along, whether it be from pasteurized ice cream or whether from raw milk, you’ve got the lactase enzyme to digest it easily, break it down and you can easily simulate it. You’re worried about the leaky gut is important because what we would normally not have allergies to, allergies are prevalent everywhere because the leaky gut, the tight junctions are wide open. We’ve got this space where things that are not supposed to go through from the inner lining inside the intestines into our bloodstream gets by. If you fix that with obviously the mucosa lining we recovered and the tissues being healthy, you don’t have those allergies anymore.

If you go to Farmers Over Pharmacies, there’s a phenomenal video about this little kid named Paxon. He had a huge problem with a dairy allergy. He had a food allergy, peanut allergy, all allergies and severe asthma in the hospital all year long. Antibiotics, ear infections, it was a mess. Parents are freaking out. They got a hold of a Weston A. Price nutritional consultant person. Six months on a good probiotic bone broth, raw milk kefir, good vegetables, fermented vegetables, all good nutrition, the kid is running on a track team now. He has no food allergies, sitting at the peanut allergy table eating peanuts with everybody else. It’s amazing what happens when you heal up a leaky gut. The doctor says, “No, this kid was on EpiPens in every room and Alupent inhalers.” It was insane, but now he’s totally fine. Having dogs and cats and plays like a normal kid. That’s where we need to be in America in terms of recovering from this acute disease, chronic disease processes. Not more drugs because all they do is make things worse.

It’s one of those things that we learn a little bit in medical school and even in the holistic side of things as far as dairy is mucus-producing. Dairy leads to allergies and asthma, gastrointestinal issues and all that stuff. You’re probably going to agree and say, “That’s true likely. If it is pasteurized and homogenized, then we’ve got all these different problems when you’re living the unhealthy lifestyle.” When you live the Paleo lifestyle and you eat the Paleo foods and you do the raw dairy, we’re in good shape. Tell me a little bit about the cows in general as far as different varieties, different breeds. Is there something that my audience need to know regarding less allergenic or more hypoallergenic, you tell me?

To touch on one thing, mast cells, they’re found in the connective tissue in the body which release histamines when they’re stimulated to do so. Increase that whole congestion thing. Those mast cells, they’re inhibited and stabilized by the raw whey protein found in raw milk. That raw whey protein is no longer active in terms of keeping mast cells releasing histamines. That’s the physiological pathway of why we know and how we know. There’s some other information out there as well, but that’s the one that has been identified. As far as cows are concerned, I hadn’t met a cow yet that didn’t present well when she was given the right set of conditions, pastures and sunshine. Yes, I do agree that there are some cows that have been bred to do something well like tons and tons of milk. They’re ignoring the having some failures in her immune system but she’s only going to live three-and-a-half to four years old because she’s hammered.

That’s the race card. It goes to these huge cable operations because that’s what they have to do to survive in this economic destruction they’ve got in the dairy industry. When you put a cow, a Jersey Holstein Cross, the Ayrshire or Normande out on pasture and you decrease the requirements on them down to four to six gallons of milk per day instead of sixteen to twenty. She’s going to live twelve to fifteen years and she’s going to be great and she’s going to have easy birthing. She’s going to do all things when you don’t breed for a race car. You breed for the calmer, more realistic production where she gets to live too and you work with her. It’s a whole different show. We don’t have one particular breed we like more than another but our most favorite is the Jersey Holstein Cross because they produce good milk and lots of cream.

They also have the traits of a good pasturing and easy birthing and all good stuff that you want in an organic dairy. There’s a little bit more yellowish tint to the milk, the high chlorophyll content will make the three fatty acid ratios high. Anti-inflammatory good fats are important. The butter, the cheese is all delicious. I could go on all day about the natural conditions being important to have that cow express herself naturally versus being in confinement with no sunshine. You’ve got everything in the world that’s used to stimulate more milk production and cows to die. That’s part of the animal health part of the whole thing, the animal welfare part of the thing. It’s good with the farmer and it’s good for the soil. It’s good for the water, it’s good for the air and it’s good for the earthworms. It’s good for the cow. It’s absolutely good for the consumer. It’s good for everybody. It’s fantastic.

There’s a book I read some time ago and it’s something along the lines of how cows save the earth. I’m not here to bash vegans or veganism. They have what they think is the best way. It happens that they’re wrong but when it comes to saving the Earth and this is how cows save the planet because they graze on the soil, they churn up the soil, they re-fertilize the soil and then it’s natural. Back in the day there were tens of millions of herds of buffalo that were ranging around and creating that top soil layer and all the amazing things on how cows and animals can save the Earth. Tell me what’s going on at the Raw Milk Institute.

I’m happy to have met with six directors of different departments over the USDA in Washington DC with Peg Coleman, who’s one of our other directors at Raw Milk Institute. We asked her and she said, “You did a great thing at the USDA a few years back by saying, ‘Get to know your farmer and get to know your food.’” It was a USDA program. I said, “You forgot one thing. When do you have a city dweller go out and get to know the farmer and get to know their food, guess what that food looks like? It looks like it’s raw because it’s not a process you’re visiting, it’s a farm.” When you do that, you want to make sure that you train that farmer to be able to produce raw milk in a way that’s sanitary. If it’s just raw milk you’re getting and not some biodiversity, that bug makes a city dweller sick. They were inviting to us a bunch of grant programs that they’re opening up wide open to us to do farmer education, even farmer-consumer education about organic, about raw milk and everything. We’re going to be applying some big grants for them to launch Raw Milk Institute. It’s been around now for a few years but launching into the next generation of helping more farmers nationally and internationally to do raw milk-specific for human consumption versus pasteurized.

When did you start Organic Pastures? Tell me what’s the latest with Organic Pastures and where do people find it?

It's amazing what happens when you heal up with leaky gut. Click To Tweet

We started Raw Milk back in 1999-2000. We’re thriving. We’re in 450 stores in California. Our sprout stores periods out here, we have 115 sprout stores. Our cheese is in a couple of thousand stores across the United States in various different source Akin’s, ATB, there’s a bunch of stores up in Boston. There are stores in Colorado. You go to OrganicPastures.com and there’s a store locator with a national map showing where you could find our products. Unfortunately, fluid raw milk and butter can’t go across state lines. We’re working on fighting that but cheese can. If you look at the study done by J Ferrières where he studied the French paradox, he goes, “Red wine is fine but you’d have to drink a tank load to get the benefit and you’d be literally shot. What about the two pounds of raw cheese that they’re eating every week with the alkaline phosphatase enzyme. It’s critical to inflammation reduction in your body.” That was something that reached the PubMed peer-reviewed paper that came down. It showed the anti-inflammatory effects of raw dairy expresses raw cheese.

Our raw cheese is going to everybody, everywhere helping us but Organic Pasture is thriving. It’s a family operation where we got 80 employees and twenty trucks going to about 400 stores throughout California with twenty farmer’s markets. We’re thriving in the midst of carnage amongst our friends that are in the conventional and even in the organic environment. The pasteurizer has mediated the value of their milk and they’re no longer consumer-connected. They don’t hear what consumers are saying. I hear consumers all day long by coming in on our hotline and talking at the moment. We talk to them on the farmer’s markets. We have a blog. We’ve got all kinds of Facebook and Instagram going back and forth. It’s a wide environment. These guys don’t have a clue who their customers are. Their customers are a creamery if holding enough together and do all kinds of weird and unspeakable things to it. It’s literally a renaissance and it’s happening all of the United States and the world. It’s a beautiful thing.

How often do you eat raw ice cream?

It’s a summertime treat, that’s for sure. You get in-season fruit and get your honey, you get your raw cream, double that. I love that and you get your raw milk and you churn it.

The raw eggs too?

All day long, raw eggs for sure.

We love doing the raw ice cream. It’s such an amazing treat. It’s delicious. I want to hit on the point too that organic dairy is not the same. That’s not what we’re talking about. Organic dairy is better than conventional dairy. We’re fine with that but the conversation we’re having here it’s all about raw dairy, quality dairy. My wife and I went to California with the baby a couple of months ago and we went to Erewhon grocery store. We walked out of there with big butter sticks from organic pastures and we took it across the state lines. We took it back to Colorado and it was magical. Anybody would look at that and say, “It’s expensive. It’s $16 for those four sticks. It’s gold.” Think about how much effort you have to put into the animal and then to take the milk and then make the butter out of it and all the people power and all the quality and everything.

It takes three gallons of raw milk to make one pound of butter.

HHS 44 | Raw Milk

Raw Milk: Putting raw butter on your vegetables is a fantastic way to increase the bio assimilation of the vitamins.


I feel guilty and that shows that it is a treat. For the most part, we never cook with raw butter. Any bit of the raw butter goes straight down the hatch and maybe you can put it in and make a raw butter coffee and put it in there. We’re careful about that and even the raw dairy, we’re careful about as well to respect it and honor it.

If you could put the raw butter on your vegetables when you steam your vegetables, it’s a fantastic way to increase the bioassimilation of the vitamins because the raw fats are important for bioavailability of minerals and vitamins. It’s interesting the bioactivity of a good functioning genome or genome and biome in your gut is it makes a lot of important vitamins for you. Bacteria make vitamins. I hope for a day soon where we can have more doctors of osteopathy and the chiropractor training being swung in the mainstream with doctors that are acute care physicians that are dealing with the heart attacks and the car wrecks and the gunshots. We can assimilate those to a bigger toolbox because we’re cheating ourselves and civilization. It’s unfortunate but I’m hoping for a change in the coming years so we can embrace that.

With your power, your passion you’ve got a friend in The Drs. Wolfson over here. We appreciate what you’re doing and the world needs more of you. Keep going with the energy and stuff like that. Organic Pastures, find it in your area. Look at the Raw Milk Institute. If you’re looking for places to donate your money, that is the place as opposed to Susan Coleman or some kind of cancer foundation or the American Red Cross. Know where your stuff is going to and I would rather donate to you guys than anywhere else. You also mentioned alkaline phosphatase and the data that came out about that. That is a live enzyme that is in the gut that is found in the raw dairy, how that is calming to the gut. It heals the leaky gut, lowers inflammation, oxidative stress. Therefore, it leads to less coronary artery disease, inflammation, oxidative stress linked to cancer, heart disease, brain disease. When you lower those numbers down, you lower the risk of those bad diseases.

The alkaline phosphatase enzyme, not a lot of people know this, but I did the pasteurized milk ordinance, the exact name of the test for effective pasteurization is called negative alpha phosphatase test. The good stuff’s being destroyed clearly on its face when we know that the cheeses in Europe and the ones that win the awards almost all the time, it’s got more flavor. It’s digestible and it’s the truly raw cheddar cheeses and other cheeses that have that biodiversity and the alkaline phosphatase enzyme. I’m sure there are the raw whey proteins as well. There are all kinds of things going on that are critical to your gut. Feed the gut and you’ll be well.

Mark McAfee, it was wonderful. Thank you so much Organic Pastures, the Raw Milk Institute. We will catch you in the next episode.

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About Mark McAfee

HHS 44 | Raw MilkFounder of Organic Pastures Dairy, Mark is internationally recognized as an expert in raw milk safety and production. He has spoken in more than 25 states and three countries on the subject. In 2000, Mark brought together the team and systems that founded OPDC and then in the last 14 years grew the CA-based company to include 65 employees, 24 delivery trucks, more than 600 retail stores, 15 farmers markets and 30 buyers clubs.

Mark founded the Raw Milk Institute.Org in 2011, to teach, research and create low-risk raw milk production systems and practices for the humanitarian benefit of the emerging raw milk markets. In addition, he taught paramedic medicine at a local County Health Department and worked for sixteen years as an EMS paramedic responding to more than 15,000 calls.

Mark served on a STAR rescue team and airborne EMS services, while also serving as marketing director and operations manager for a $30 million dollar EMS company. He is pre-med trained and is an experienced medical educator. Mark started flying at 15 and is an active clinic mission pilot for LIGA, “the flying doctors”. Mark flies all over California and the western USA meeting raw milk customers for much requested free “Share the Secret” presentations.